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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:34 AM   #151
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Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders

Pardon my ignorance, as I always want to learn. Why is a feature to change white balance while recording so important? What are you recording that requires it. I have never had the desire to change it while recording. The only thing I have recorded with that drastic changes in lighting are stage shows. However, white balancing for each scene distorts the overall look the lighting designer worked so hard to achieve.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 10:11 AM   #152
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Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders

It is stage shows that I need it for and I agree that it is normally best to leave it on Auto, however, sometimes it needs tweeking, particularly when filming at outdoor theatres. Never come across a camera that couldn't do it - that's all.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 12:03 PM   #153
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Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders

You need it for any event where you change angles or pan to a spot where the lighting requires a different white balance setting.

This scenario is very common in wedding work. For example, during the processional my main camera might be pointing at the door of the church, then after the processional I am aimed at the altar. Totally different lighting.

Or when you go from indoor to outdoors and you cannot/do not want to stop recording for continuity purposes. For example, if you are following someone who leaves or enters a building, such as a bride and groom leaving a church.

Auto white balance on the XA-10 was the worst I had ever seen, it is never usable for me. Don't know yet about the XA-20.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 04:58 PM   #154
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Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders

Alright. I do understand why you might need to change the settings when changing angles, but I normally would stop recording while I change positions. It could make lining things up in the NLE much easier if I didn't. However, you got me on leaving a church following the couple. I have just used auto WB for that shot. If the camera's auto WB couldn't handle it, changing while recording could be a nice feature. I don't trust myself to handle that while following the couple through the crowd and out the door, though. I might break something.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 05:38 PM   #155
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Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders

Yours and my idea of acceptable color and white balance might be different. Also, we NEVER turn off during a wedding for any reason if it can be avoided. The event does not stop and wait while I adjust my white balance or move my cameras. I need continuous audio and video as well. Sadly, I do end up turning off the camera at times to set my white balance, and I hate doing it.

Auto white balance sucks on most of these cameras. If it's acceptable to you, great. To me the XA10 had the worst auto white balance I'd ever seen. I suspect the XA20 is better, but even so, I doubt that I will rely on it, especially trying to match cameras.

If you do a lot of weddings you know for many catholic churches, or any church for that matter, you will have a mixture of sun and incandescent lighting and you cannot possibly trust auto white balance, it cannot know what to do.
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Old July 5th, 2013, 07:44 AM   #156
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Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders

Note for dummies. just wanted to try:

Auto ramt vluchtheuvel Oirschotsedijk [foto's + video] - Eindhoven - dichtbij.nl - Eindhoven

This video is how the XA25 performs in full-auto mode. Not bad at all, surely when you consider filming under a viaduct can give hard time in defining the aperture.Biggest dissapointment for me so far is the zoomrocker on the XA25. It's very sturdy and there is almost no way to get a soft and nice zoom.
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Old July 5th, 2013, 08:57 AM   #157
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Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders

Bryon, I was filming an outdoor event for NASCAR two weeks ago and we followed a driver indoors where my images promptly turned yellow because I could not switch to an indoor WB setting. The footage is nearly impossible to grade in post. I can remove the yellow cast, but then everything else looks just very bad color wise. Problem is I was trying to use a prosumer camera for a professional application, which is my fault. So while the camera's features are what they are, I'm still peeved and disappointed. I just hate that they label this a pro camera and then cripple this feature.

Last edited by Jeff Harper; July 5th, 2013 at 02:37 PM.
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Old July 5th, 2013, 11:59 AM   #158
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Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders

My Sony NX30U will change while recording. Couple of button pushes though not like moving a switch on the NX5U. One of the MY buttons on the LCD can be set as white balance which will then open the white balance setting menu and any of the choices can be made while recording. So two button pushes instead of moving a switch but it works fine. I think you can do the same by setting one of the buttons on the XA20.

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Old July 5th, 2013, 02:10 PM   #159
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Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders

Ron, the XA-20 will let WB menu to be activated with a programmable button, which gave me hope when I begann playing with the camera, but the feature will not appear when recording. When going through the regular menu, the WB item on the menu is greyed out when recording. Stinks.
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Old July 5th, 2013, 02:21 PM   #160
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Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders

Jeff,
Can you assign two of the assignable buttons to pre-set WB settings & simply push the buttons to go between the two? Of course even if this is possible, it may be too sudden a change to be useable.
The other option if it exists is setting up a WB transition like on the Sony EX-3 where the shot transition buttons can be used to transition between two WB settings.
Regards,
Bryce

P.S. I'm glad I don't have to deal with this issue in my shooting conditions. I think it would be a bit of a pain trying to do it all on the fly. Sure for a set shot, but in your situation, I can see how it would be tough!
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Old July 5th, 2013, 02:39 PM   #161
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Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders

Bryce, good idea, but no. The assignable button brings up the WB menu only, not a preset.
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Old July 5th, 2013, 03:23 PM   #162
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Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Harper View Post
Ron, the XA-20 will let WB menu to be activated with a programmable button, which gave me hope when I begann playing with the camera, but the feature will not appear when recording. When going through the regular menu, the WB item on the menu is greyed out when recording. Stinks.
Yes that is bad. Even though all my stuff is in the theatre I often check to see all the cameras are set correctly after I start recording and more than once one of the cameras is on the wrong WB setting and its nice to just change while recording. I expect your only solution is to momentary stop and change but that makes sync more difficult later.

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Old July 5th, 2013, 03:54 PM   #163
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Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders

You're right, I can stop and change, but as we all know, that is not always possible. On the other hand, the WB menu is much handier on the XA-20 when using the programmable button, which will speed up the process a bit.
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Old July 5th, 2013, 07:59 PM   #164
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Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabor Heeres View Post
Note for dummies. just wanted to try:

Auto ramt vluchtheuvel Oirschotsedijk [foto's + video] - Eindhoven - dichtbij.nl - Eindhoven

This video is how the XA25 performs in full-auto mode. Not bad at all, surely when you consider filming under a viaduct can give hard time in defining the aperture.Biggest dissapointment for me so far is the zoomrocker on the XA25. It's very sturdy and there is almost no way to get a soft and nice zoom.
Gabor, there is a way to get a 'soft and nice zoom' on the XA20/25 cameras. Go into the MENU on the camera, then select the 'Soft Zoom Control' option, then select 'START and STOP'. Next, set your 'Zoom Speed Control' (not the 'Handle Zoom Control') to about midway (which is the factory default). Make sure you select 'CONST' so that when you press down on the rocker, the speed will be constant (a variable setting is also available).

This should give you nice, slow zooms that start and stop softly. If you want the zooms to be even slower than this, simply go into the 'Zoom Speed Control' option and choose a slower speed.
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Old July 5th, 2013, 09:29 PM   #165
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Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders

Hey Jeff,
I just picked up my XA20! Certainly lots of improvement over the HF G10 that I have. Maybe not up there with my EX-3, but hey, it's tiny compared to that camera!!
I just had a look, & you could assign one of the buttons (like number 4, being at the back of the cam & not behind the LCD screen) to white balance. Once you push it, you can select from all the custom white balance presets, as well as the 2 custom white balance settings. If you set one to the colour temperature of the lighting inside, & one to 5600k for outside, you can then simply use the little toggle to go between the two. Quite easy & very fast, but unfortunately as you have mentioned, you are not able to do it whilst recording.
Regards,
Bryce
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