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Old May 23rd, 2013, 08:41 PM   #61
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Re: Magic Lantern unlocks Canon 5D to shoot 14 bit raw via liveview

Cliff, Jim - I think you're both right.

Reality is that Canon has already likely peaked in terms of C300 sales. And nary a Canon fan boy (which I counted myself among) was pleased with the pricing of these cinema cameras.

What these hacks prove - if it needed proving at this point - is that Canon could make a much cheaper cinema camera if they desired. It also shows that the BMC camera pricing isn't a fluke.

Immediately, the impact will be small - few if any pros would risk a hack of any kind on a paying job, and even fewer with a hack this new. Few full length narrative movies would want to use A) a DSLR or B) one with a hack. But some will. And those few brave souls will produce some stunning footage (heck, they already have), footage that other shooters will ultimately have to match at some point.

All of which means companies who have been very active in the market in the past two years - Canon, Sony, and BMC - will have to make some sort of adjustments, even if it's just in pricing. For other companies who have been relatively quiet - like Panasonic and Nikon - they will have to decide if they will even try to get share of the market all all.
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Old May 24th, 2013, 02:56 AM   #62
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Rolling shutter test on the 5D2 in raw video mode vs native h264

For those curious to know about the rolling shutter "bendy thingy" in raw dng mode, I made this test with 2 cameras camparing raw video vs h264.

Since I only have one 5D2 and a 7D, I shot them first both at H264 to create a baseline behavior.
If both have similar behavior in h264, then I can use the 7D to do a side by side with the 5D recording raw while the 7D at h264.

The result I was after is not to see which camera was better but rather to have a basis to see if RS was any worse for just one camera (the 5D) between two formats, Raw DNG and H264.
The result I got for the first test, which was H264 on both, was what I used as basis to see in the second, which is raw and H264 if there is a difference between raw and h264 for the 5D alone.
That was my objective. Not as weather one cam had better RS effect than the other.

You can draw your own conclusions.

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Last edited by Ted Ramasola; May 24th, 2013 at 08:10 AM. Reason: added text
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Old May 24th, 2013, 12:11 PM   #63
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Re: Magic Lantern unlocks Canon 5D to shoot 14 bit raw via liveview

I think that the C100/300/500 are better cameras than the 5D III for video. However, the 5D II/III have created a niche market that is still pretty large. There have always been 101 reasons "not" to record on a DSLR, but that hasn't seemed to slow down the DSLR video growth.

I think this new Magic Lantern development will re-start a new desire for the low end buyers to keep using their 5D's. Yes, the workflow for this thing is a PITA but has not stopped people in the past. These shooters have always seemed to be happy using work around after work around to get the job done.

These new Magic Lantern tests are a bit startling and a bit disturbing. If this software continues to mature and if they develop a more streamlined workflow?...than I don't see thing being a simple "flash in the pan". I think the rest of the industry is going to be forced to acknowledge this capability.

I have never shot RAW sensor video before. I'm and EX1r and FS100 guy. But you better believe I'm jumping on that little BlackMagic Pocket Camera for 1,000 bucks. It will my first "toe in the water" in the RAW recording swimming pool.

I dunno,...only time will tell but I bet that "cheap" RAW recording will not go away and will only grow in a couple of years.

Maybe I'm wrong?
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Old May 24th, 2013, 04:37 PM   #64
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Re: Magic Lantern unlocks Canon 5D to shoot 14 bit raw via liveview

Cliff,

I came from DIY 35mm adapter era, making work arounds to get things done is part of what I call fun. :)

Cross your fingers, I think the ML hackers just smashed the 4gig limit on the 5D mkII. I'll be testing it later.
:) Every couple of so hours something new comes up.
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Old May 25th, 2013, 01:08 PM   #65
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Re: Magic Lantern unlocks Canon 5D to shoot 14 bit raw via liveview

I don't know if anybody has said this before but I thought I'd go ahead and mention it anyway;

The Magic Lantern team is amazing and they have been able to reverse engineer Canon cameras to an amazing degree. I'm not really a "conspiracy" guy but Magic Lantern seems to have gotten very deep into these camera's firmware and and their circuits.

Question: Is Magic Lantern just "that" good? Or, are they receiving "assistance" from inside Canon? (some form of insider knowledge?)

I can't think of any other cameras that have been hacked this deep or this thoroughly.

My guess is that ML is just "that" good?

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Old May 26th, 2013, 04:45 AM   #66
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Re: Magic Lantern unlocks Canon 5D to shoot 14 bit raw via liveview

Magic Lantern has built on CHDK which has been around for over five years and doing similar things to enhance the functionality of Canon's point & shoot cameras.
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Old May 26th, 2013, 08:14 AM   #67
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Re: Magic Lantern unlocks Canon 5D to shoot 14 bit raw via liveview

It is quite amazing. The images coming out only after a few weeks of the RAW discovery are really nice. Nice enough to have an impact on the industry going forward imho. While I think exisiting cameras will not be impacted too much, the next round of camera development will need to be that much better and more affordable to get consumer interest. In short, the cat is out of the bag, the bar has been raised, or any other saying you can add.

Basically, the 5DMKIV needs to have RAW video as an option to be a successful camera in the video marketplace. In their way, ML is forcing the hand of the camera makers going forward.
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Old May 26th, 2013, 10:50 AM   #68
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Re: Magic Lantern unlocks Canon 5D to shoot 14 bit raw via liveview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Polster View Post
Basically, the 5DMKIV needs to have RAW video as an option to be a successful camera in the video marketplace. In their way, ML is forcing the hand of the camera makers going forward.
Or Canon could do what manufacturers frequently do and remove or limit the ability to hack the camera, either by encrypting the firmware or hardwiring limitations into the hardware (like the 22-MBps data rate in the SD controller). It's apparent by the pricing of the C series that Canon wishes to overcharge and underfeature its cameras, to perpetuate the the excessive price premium for "professional" video equipment.

Last edited by Lawrence Bansbach; May 26th, 2013 at 11:34 AM.
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Old May 26th, 2013, 10:53 AM   #69
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Re: Magic Lantern unlocks Canon 5D to shoot 14 bit raw via liveview

The day will come when the cash flow of these companies in the video market will be generated by lenses only, not by cameras.
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Old May 26th, 2013, 04:51 PM   #70
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Re: Magic Lantern unlocks Canon 5D to shoot 14 bit raw via liveview

Yeah, we are now seeing lower end cameras that looking more and more like their upper tier counterparts. More and more people are making great productions on far cheaper gear. (I don't see this trend reversing)

Just wondering here,...Let's say Canon, Sony and Panny were to each build a $3,000 -$4,000 camera with 12bit RAW recording, Super 35 sensor and proper XLR audio input. How would that affect each company's $10,000+ models? If Sony made this fantasy camera for that low price, would you still save up for an F55 at five times the cost? (an F55 would be allot less attractive)

Great looking and super CHEAP RAW cameras can literally destroy the industries "normal" business model. There could come a day in the near future where a $4,000 camera could literally have virtually all the features, functions and image quality that a Sony F55 or C500 has.

I tip my hat to Magic Lantern and especially BlackMagic for creating this kind of pressure on the big 3. If Sony, Canon and Panny's future business plan is to just ignore what is happening on the "grass roots" level?...they will only make their competition stronger and certainly make BlackMagic very very happy.

Wow...does anybody think that cheap, high quality, RAW recording is an obscure "fad" and will just "go away" soon? Anybody?
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Old May 26th, 2013, 06:53 PM   #71
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Re: Magic Lantern unlocks Canon 5D to shoot 14 bit raw via liveview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Totten View Post
There could come a day in the near future where a $4,000 camera could literally have virtually all the features, functions and image quality that a Sony F55 or C500 has.
Yep, I agree -- especially the "literally have virtually" part. But isn't this pretty much what has happened all along -- remember when the 5D2 initially was released, etc, etc...?

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Old May 30th, 2013, 11:46 PM   #72
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Re: Magic Lantern unlocks Canon 5D to shoot 14 bit raw via liveview

Another nice feature of recording in Raw mode with the 5D mkII is that on my SWIT HD monitor, the resolution won't drop down to SD anymore when recording!
In fact there is now no delay or glitch.

The bug is, it hangs the camera if you try to view the footage with HDMI cable attached ( ERR 70 ) so if if want to view footy, remove the hdmi cable.


I'm still using may 29th build. A reminder that this is all subject to improvements every day.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 12:46 PM   #73
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Re: Magic Lantern unlocks Canon 5D to shoot 14 bit raw via liveview

Ted
Thanks for your reportage! (on both mk2&3)
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Old May 31st, 2013, 06:49 PM   #74
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Re: Magic Lantern unlocks Canon 5D to shoot 14 bit raw via liveview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Ramasola View Post
Another nice feature of recording in Raw mode with the 5D mkII is that on my SWIT HD monitor, the resolution won't drop down to SD anymore when recording!
In fact there is now no delay or glitch.

The bug is, it hangs the camera if you try to view the footage with HDMI cable attached ( ERR 70 ) so if if want to view footy, remove the hdmi cable.


I'm still using may 29th build. A reminder that this is all subject to improvements every day.
I now have a 1000x card ( Komputer Bay) which was recommended by someone testing these versions of ML. I get video to the 4 gig limit in the 1880 x 840 size. I think that is the best I can do with my 5D Mark II. So my next step is to test the version that steps past the 4gig limit.

Ted, how is that working out for you. Can PM me the latest update ?
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Old May 31st, 2013, 09:12 PM   #75
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Re: Magic Lantern unlocks Canon 5D to shoot 14 bit raw via liveview

Chris,

Tested with 2 spanned files totalling 5.25 gig so far so good. Will test for more than 9 gig.

Caution, do not use the drag over the raw2dng method for join and extract.

Join the spanned files first via the command prompt method then extract the joined file by draging over the raw2dng.
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