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Old August 26th, 2013, 10:15 AM   #16
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Re: JIM JANNARD RESIGNS as Face of RED

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Originally Posted by Barry Goyette View Post
I think the man deserves his due. He did reshape the landscape. Simply conceiving of a US based camera manufacturing company was enough...but he has pushed an envelope that didn't want to be pushed, and we've all benefitted from it. The industry is more alive at least partially because of him.

However, Jim Jannard did it with a hell of a lot of hype. He did it on the internet. He used that internet to build his company, often in ways that were occasionally "border-line" and frankly he personally trashed a lot of people and companies in the process. To now claim that he didn't deserve the criticism, that he's tired because people on the internet are mean...and that because of "them" he doesn't want to play anymore...well...that's pretty funny, don't you think?

I watched dissenters get publicly shamed on reduser for merely suggesting that there might be flaws in the system. I hardly ever saw the big guy step in and stop it. Actually...I saw him regularly add to the pile-on when it suited his needs.

The man deserves his due, all right. He created a great camera company. That company will continue to prosper and innovate. As he said, the public face is now Jarred...a person who is much better suited to the job. But the rest of it...the reason "why" he's stepping back...well that's just more hype and BS...which unfortunately, is business as usual for Mr. Jannard.
Yeah well Steve Jobs wasn't exactly know for his politeness or ability to take criticism either. Passionate men sometimes get a bit too passionate. Just the way they are wired.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 10:41 AM   #17
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Re: JIM JANNARD RESIGNS as Face of RED

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Originally Posted by Thomas Smet View Post
Yeah well Steve Jobs wasn't exactly know for his politeness or ability to take criticism either. Passionate men sometimes get a bit too passionate. Just the way they are wired.
When you are putting out 110%, giving your everything and trying to do your absolute best, this in going up against Sony, Panasonic, Canon, Arri and all the other huge machines, then one might be able to see why people like Jobs didn't take no for an answer and did not take kindly to even small criticisms.

Too passionate? Perhaps for some, but for me, that's what putting out 110% means.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 01:17 PM   #18
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Re: JIM JANNARD RESIGNS as Face of RED

Unfortunately, it wasn't just other camera manufactures, but it included DPs who shoot with his cameras and some customers.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 05:26 PM   #19
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Re: JIM JANNARD RESIGNS as Face of RED

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Yeah well Steve Jobs wasn't exactly know for his politeness or ability to take criticism either. Passionate men sometimes get a bit too passionate. Just the way they are wired.
I don't think comparisons to Steve Jobs are accurate at all relative to my comment. Being prickly isn't the point. Criticizing Microsoft wasn't either. If Apple had announced the iPhone two years plus before delivering it, If Jobs had stopped being "lead marketer" at Apple and blamed his leaving on Google being evil (and on the way out the door called Ballmer a prick), you might have something. Steve Jobs said something else entirely. Apple - Press Info - Letter from Steve Jobs

It's not about his passion, or creativity, or ability. Jannard ran the public face of Red in a very hype-driven, confrontational fashion. Quite often bashing and swinging as he went. As he left the stage he chose to to fire off a few parting shots... with a "Geoff Boyle this," and an "Art Adams that"...and ended with an "I don't deserve this"...so..."I'm outta here."

I think my point was simply "live by the sword, die by the sword."
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Old August 27th, 2013, 10:19 PM   #20
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Re: JIM JANNARD RESIGNS as Face of RED

I've met and talked with Jim a few times. He is the real deal. He is passionate and forward thinking in what he does.
If he hadn't made the Red One, we would still be using HDV cameras with 2/3" chips. 1080p. There would probably be high-end bigger sensor/raw/4k+ cameras, but not at the same prices! Some of those "high-end" cameras at the time of the Red One were well over $100k!

I hope he still comes to NAB... need to buy him a beer and/or cigar!
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Old August 27th, 2013, 10:51 PM   #21
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Re: JIM JANNARD RESIGNS as Face of RED

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Originally Posted by Jacques Mersereau View Post
Despite all the failings, shortfalls, and missed delivery times, my hat is off to Jim Jannard for his and his teams' accomplishments. I do put Jim in the same category as visionaries like Steve Jobs.
Yep, I'm sad to see Jannard stepping down -- although not the most educated, articulate, nor tactful person -- he has CERTAINLY contributed (and hopefully still will) more to the film industry than any living creature, (just as Steve Jobs did for the computer industry).

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Old August 28th, 2013, 02:46 AM   #22
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Re: JIM JANNARD RESIGNS as Face of RED

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Originally Posted by Chris Luker View Post
If he hadn't made the Red One, we would still be using HDV cameras with 2/3" chips. 1080p. There would probably be high-end bigger sensor/raw/4k+ cameras, but not at the same prices! Some of those "high-end" cameras at the time of the Red One were well over $100k!
With the nature of computer pricing, there would always be that downwards pressure. The technology had reached a crossing point where you could record large amounts of data, helped by some compression. The prices of cameras have generally been dropping because you don't have expensive VTRs attached.

Jim Jannard quickened the process by doing what entrepreneurs do, he saw a gap in the market and technology reached the point were it could fill it. However, I suspect the next price drop came from the large manufacturers responding to the RED One and seeing how it didn't meet the desires of a market sector that liked large sensors, but didn't want the demanding RAW workflow and couldn't afford the RED price.

I'm not sure you can say you'd be shooting HDV on 2/3" chips, that codec was reaching the end by that stage. Rather interestingly, some people have hacked old F900s to record uncompressed sensor outputs with, I gather, impressive results. The downside to 2/3" cameras are the specialised lenses, so you won't have a mass market price for your glassware. One development has been the use of codecs like ProRes and DNxHD, which were previously only used in post production also being used for acquisition,

The market for 4k can only grow if the television manufacturers can convince the public that having 4K in their living room is worthwhile.

Last edited by Brian Drysdale; August 28th, 2013 at 06:02 AM.
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Old August 28th, 2013, 03:27 AM   #23
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Re: JIM JANNARD RESIGNS as Face of RED

I suspect that Jim is getting ready to sell the company.
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Old August 29th, 2013, 06:14 AM   #24
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Re: JIM JANNARD RESIGNS as Face of RED

Jim hasn't left RED. He has removed himself from being the spokesperson and won't interact with the reduser community via his posts. He is supposed to be notoriously media shy. I guess he will focus more on interacting with ASCs and studios etc to do the background marketing as recently he and Jarred were interacting with ASCs for a demo of Epic with Dragon. It takes a lot of time posting in the forums.

I think it is good for RED as a business, good for the customers and potential customers.

I don't know Jim personally and have only read his posts and interacted with him in the forum like others. I suspect what people talk as attitude problem ie his rants etc, might be a ploy.

It might be also be partly due to RED being defensive because of late delivery, camera/firmware being in perennial beta stage etc. Remember, it is not easy to create a polished camera with everything working well in a short time. He tried to make his weakness as his strength. So there was the tag line "everything in red changes, including specs, delivery times...). Delay is seen as bad. Always. However, he tried to link the delay with changing specs. So the perception was created that all this is due to RED striving to make a better camera and people forgot that as a customer they are supposed to get a completely working camera with all the features on from day one. So there is a brilliant mind working which uses tactics, and changes your weakness into perceived strength. That is what strategy is all about.

The people who didn't buy his arguments were blasted and branded as some kind of "heretics". That ensured a lot of murmurings didn't come on the surface. If he would not have done that, then there would have been more questions by others. It is agreed that a few guys got pissed and some moved to other brands. However, he was trying to ensure the least amount of damage.

Psychologists will tell you that when people know they are down, they try to be aggressive and hit back hard.

Now that Dragon sensor seems to be good, you may see a different Jim. You may see him polite and doing the backroom deals with the big boys so that his camera is used more by the major studios. That is the sign of leaders. They change their personality depending on situations.

One thing his worst opponents will agree is that he created two successful companies in two different industries. That is huge and can only be done by people who are passionate.

Everything in life changes, hopefully for the better.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 01:16 AM   #25
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Re: JIM JANNARD RESIGNS as Face of RED

Art Adams gives a response to what has been said about him and is an interesting commentary on early issues with the RED One.

When a Camera Manufacturer Hates Me… by Art Adams

Hopefully things will settle down, there are now a wide range of camera options available and that's a good thing.
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Old September 22nd, 2013, 04:56 AM   #26
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Re: JIM JANNARD RESIGNS as Face of RED

JJ is stepping out because he knows the days of RED are numbered.
When it started the company, he was 5 years ahead of the competition.
Jim saw a window of opportunity to introduce a 4K camera, that Sony COULD but DIDN'T WANT to bring out so early, because it would have undermined the company's established consumer and professional product lines.

Although quite behind schedule, he managed to present a credible workflow and through an aggressive and brilliant marketing, he managed to sell thousands of cameras, even to people that never really need the 4K quality. The small number of films produced with the R1 and MX are very telling of the situation. A lot of users paid for a 4K camera and a very expensive and difficult workflow, in a area which was still SD dominated.
Then he introduced EPIC which is Red's only mature camera and is not coincidence that it was embraced by the movie industry.
But now this window of opportunity is permanent closed.
The Big Boys have long recaptured their investment in HD and-after the failure of 3D-they have set their eyes in 4K. He knows his competitors have economies of scale, reputation, and worldwide service he can only dream.

The novelty is over. Soon fanboys will have 4K smartphones and pro 4K camcorders with $3K.
When Arri will introduce their 4K camera sometime next year things wont get any better. Even if DRAGON proves to be a better camera, pros will probably stick with the Arri name, just because...

4K is good enough for film and way more than enough for TV.
6K, 8K doesn't matter unless you don't know how to frame. Eventually we will have them, but only when the current technology has payed its research.

He is very clever and knows when to bow out before the lights went out. So he did.


About his legacy:

He didn't democratized filmmaking. Only 5DII can be credited for that.
He did managed to bring the cost of High end production cameras from around $200K to $50K. The rental houses and some independent DP should be eternally great full. Consequently he brought down the rental fees and put a smile on the face of low budget independent producers. A side effect of this, was the death of PANAVISION. Alas every war has collateral damage. He also put some death nails to the KODAK coffin, although I think FF DSLRS and 3D movies (Avatar) are more responsible for the loss.

His most important contribution was the adoption of digital film acquisition and raw workflow.

For that, the whole industry is grateful.
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Old September 22nd, 2013, 04:49 PM   #27
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Re: JIM JANNARD RESIGNS as Face of RED

Quote, 'I'm tired I really am.' Ever been tired like that with the main game still in full swing.

Cheers.
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