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Old September 9th, 2013, 11:09 PM   #136
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
To move to 4K required a new codec for Sony. Mpeg2 can't do 4K, H264 didn't have a standard 4K profile until very recently. So Sony needed to come up with a new codec which they did in XAVC. XAVC has a large degree of future proofing. It can do almost any frame rate, it can be I frame or long GoP, it can adjust it's encoding structure on a frame by frame basis and include that information about how the frame was encoded in the metadata so the decoder adjusts correspondingly.

But 4K requires you to record 4x as much data as HD for a similar quality image. The bigger you make an image when you show it, the more important it is to keep artefacts to a minimum. As 4K is aimed at big screens, artefacts that might have been tolerable in HD may be objectionable on a big 4K screen. So, if you want to play in the 4K swimming pool your going to have to be prepared to drown in the 4K data. To put things into some perspective, when the EX1 was launched an 8GB SxS card cost $800 and held 22 mins. A 64GB T series XQD card costs $350 and will hold up to 25mins of 4K 25/30P XAVC (approx 250Mb/s - 300Mb/s).
Any idea if when this camera gets the XAVC-S update, will it record 1080p60 (50Mbps I think I read somewhere) at 4:2:2 10bit? Or will it drop it down to 4:2:0 8bit?
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Old September 10th, 2013, 01:09 AM   #137
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
At least for the FDR-AX1 that I am interested in is now on the Canada Sony site . There is however a lens spec difference I have seen repeated before though this time it is in the same document !!!! The features info states lens as 31.5 to 630, the spec section says 29.5 to 590 (this is the spec for the NX5U ) !!

Cannot find any info for the PXW-Z100 on the site yet.

Ron Evans
Tthe 31.5 lens spec is with Quad HD, which crops to get the smaller Quad HD width, the wider 29.5 spec (30 in some literature) is with full 4K width.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 01:13 AM   #138
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
To move to 4K required a new codec for Sony. Mpeg2 can't do 4K, H264 didn't have a standard 4K profile until very recently. So Sony needed to come up with a new codec which they did in XAVC. XAVC has a large degree of future proofing. It can do almost any frame rate, it can be I frame or long GoP, it can adjust it's encoding structure on a frame by frame basis and include that information about how the frame was encoded in the metadata so the decoder adjusts correspondingly.

But 4K requires you to record 4x as much data as HD for a similar quality image. The bigger you make an image when you show it, the more important it is to keep artefacts to a minimum. As 4K is aimed at big screens, artefacts that might have been tolerable in HD may be objectionable on a big 4K screen. So, if you want to play in the 4K swimming pool your going to have to be prepared to drown in the 4K data. To put things into some perspective, when the EX1 was launched an 8GB SxS card cost $800 and held 22 mins. A 64GB T series XQD card costs $350 and will hold up to 25mins of 4K 25/30P XAVC (approx 250Mb/s - 300Mb/s).
New low cost N Series cards are coming. Check the link below

Sony Updates XQD Cards for 4K Video Capture Speeds

Rajiv
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Old September 10th, 2013, 03:42 AM   #139
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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Originally Posted by James Hobert View Post
Any idea if when this camera gets the XAVC-S update, will it record 1080p60 (50Mbps I think I read somewhere) at 4:2:2 10bit? Or will it drop it down to 4:2:0 8bit?
My info is that the 1080p60pi/50pi/30/25/24 can be recorded in 10 bit 4:2:2 at 50 Mbits in an MXF wrapper and even at 35 Mbits. But this isn't XDCAM, it's still XAVC - there's an 'XDCAM' logo on the Z100's left flank under the 4K, though. Hmmm.

I wondered if the XDCAM was there as a sort of 'interrim format' for compatibility, but if it's an XAVC thing and the compression is coming from LongGOP (like XAVC-S) then I think it's the AVCHD which is being seen as the interrim solution - and that comes 'next year' too.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 05:12 AM   #140
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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Originally Posted by Rajiv Attingal View Post
New low cost N Series cards are coming. Check the link below

Sony Updates XQD Cards for 4K Video Capture Speeds

Rajiv
According to the article, the N cards are only good for the "consumer" FDR-AX1.
But if you update the Z100 with the lower bit rate codec offered next year, perhaps they can be used?
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Old September 10th, 2013, 05:16 AM   #141
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

There's 3 types of XQD card: N, H and S (Normal, High and Superhigh?)

The N series write at 80 Mbits per second, read at 125 Mbits per second. The H series read and write at 125 Mbits per second, and the S reads and writes at 168 Mbits per second.

So, yes, XAVC-S on the N cards, XAVC on the S cards (and I'm sure there will be others over time).
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Old September 10th, 2013, 05:41 AM   #142
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

I wonder if the N series would still be within tolerable limits for S&Q on a PMW-200. In any case, cheaper XQD cards means the XDCAM folk would have an easier time moving off of SDHC.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 07:51 AM   #143
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen View Post
According to the article, the N cards are only good for the "consumer" FDR-AX1.
But if you update the Z100 with the lower bit rate codec offered next year, perhaps they can be used?
For those who buy this PXW-Z100 4K camera on experimental basis and are targeting 1080p flavors in XAVC/XAVC-S or XDCAM mpeg-2 (50/60/30/25/24) the N Series card may be sufficient and can buy in plenty. Still they can buy a single S series card experiment with 4K until they are ready to move up to.

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Old September 10th, 2013, 08:02 AM   #144
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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Originally Posted by Matt Davis View Post
There's 3 types of XQD card: N, H and S (Normal, High and Superhigh?)

The N series write at 80 Mbits per second, read at 125 Mbits per second. The H series read and write at 125 Mbits per second, and the S reads and writes at 168 Mbits per second.

So, yes, XAVC-S on the N cards, XAVC on the S cards (and I'm sure there will be others over time).
I think you mean MBps not Mbps The 4K XAVCS is 150Mbps so will be no problem for the N series at 80MBps. And should also work for 1920x1080 on the PXW-Z100.

My interest is in the FDR-AX1 because I want the long record times so the 64G cards will be great. I need to record over 2 hours 30 mins so with the included 32G card, 2 x64 cards will do it for me. Wish the AVCHD feature was initially active as that would give a simultaneous record backup. We will have to wait an see what is actually in these cameras when they appear in a few weeks for the FDR-AX1.

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Old September 10th, 2013, 08:05 AM   #145
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

Uuurgh - yes. I'm trying to tweak the review, edit the video and keep up with 'actual work' and so my CaPiTaLiSaTiOn is going to pot. Mb is not MB by a factor of 8! Hmm, there is such a thing as 'too much' caffeine.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 08:11 AM   #146
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

We understand Matt. Any info you can give us is really appreciated.

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Old September 10th, 2013, 09:17 AM   #147
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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Hmm, there is such a thing as 'too much' caffeine.
Could be the post of the day... mulling this over as I have my coffee.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 09:43 AM   #148
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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Originally Posted by Matt Davis View Post
There's 3 types of XQD card: N, H and S (Normal, High and Superhigh?)

The N series write at 80 Mbits per second, read at 125 Mbits per second. The H series read and write at 125 Mbits per second, and the S reads and writes at 168 Mbits per second.

So, yes, XAVC-S on the N cards, XAVC on the S cards (and I'm sure there will be others over time).
The new UHS-II SD cards will be even faster with maximum possible write speed up to 312MB/s.
Toshiba announces first UHS-II SD cards as world's fastest: Digital Photography Review


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7411/9...81c8afd9_o.jpg
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Old September 11th, 2013, 02:09 AM   #149
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

UHS-II is what MicroP2 is currently using, but that is not cross compatible with SDHC or SDXC.

Capacity and Speed are both needed for 4K, and how not to do it was JVC's 4 SD card solution.

512GB XQD cards are what are going to have to come down the line if 4K and long-length acquisition (like concert video) is going to be viable without endlessly swapping cards.
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Old September 11th, 2013, 07:28 AM   #150
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

I think a useful addition would be a XQD adaptor in the camera to SSD housing for long record times much like the hard drive for the EX family. Even with the FDR-AX1 this may be a better alternative to lots of XQD cards that I would consider.

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