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Old December 2nd, 2013, 03:53 PM   #256
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

In terms of sensitivity AX1 and Z100 are the same. I can't comment on comparison to cameras from other brands. I have used a production Z100 and it was no different to the pre-production units.
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Old December 2nd, 2013, 05:22 PM   #257
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

Alister did you play around with S&Q recording when you had the camera? The settings only seem to be available in HD mode, at higher resolution no S&Q. Is that correct? Thanks-
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 03:13 PM   #258
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

S&Q only works in HD, but you can shoot at 50 or 60p in 4K.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 05:12 PM   #259
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
In terms of sensitivity AX1 and Z100 are the same. I can't comment on comparison to cameras from other brands. I have used a production Z100 and it was no different to the pre-production units.
Thanks Alister. Does the Z100 have the focus distance readout in ft/m that I've found infinitely handy on other cameras?
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 07:04 PM   #260
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

"Thanks Alister. Does the Z100 have the focus distance readout in ft/m that I've found infinitely handy on other cameras?"

It does.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 09:17 PM   #261
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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Originally Posted by Mark OConnell View Post
"Thanks Alister. Does the Z100 have the focus distance readout in ft/m that I've found infinitely handy on other cameras?"

It does.
Sweet!

Thanks Mark!

Hopefully now we'll start to see some test/comparison footage from this camera. Wish it had XAVC-S out of the box...oh well.
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Old December 11th, 2013, 12:18 PM   #262
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

I had to send mine back to the dealer because there was so much noise in the image. I requested an exchange rather then a straight return because I figure it's got to be defective. If the next one is noisy as well I'll do a return.
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Old December 11th, 2013, 12:31 PM   #263
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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Does the Z100 fare any better at all than the AX1? Or is it the same?
Based on my playtime with the Z100 and a colleague's experience with the AX1, note that the Z100 is recording 10 bit 4:2:2 Intra, the AX1 is recording 8 bit 4:2:0 Long-GOP. I'm becoming a bit of a 10 bit convert as a result.
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Old December 11th, 2013, 01:36 PM   #264
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

One would expect a difference between 150Mbps LongGOP and 600Mbps 10 bit 4:2:2 !!! As far as noise from the sensor is concerned is there really a difference though. Because of the ramping on the zoom even in good light my AX1 will have a reasonable amount of gain compared to the NX5. Doesn't take much to make it go to 12db and at 15db one starts to see some obvious grain though not too unpleasant. I would really like to know if the HDMI on the AX1 is 10bit so that an external recorder could match or exceed the Z100.

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Old December 12th, 2013, 12:13 PM   #265
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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One would expect a difference between 150Mbps LongGOP and 600Mbps 10 bit 4:2:2 !!!
Not necessarily. There is no reason longGOP can't be 4:2:2 and 10 bit, and in terms of general compression quality, then you can expect a longGOP system to be more efficient in terms of quality v bitrate than an I-frame only one.

Downside is increased processing power needed to compress and process - upside is the same quality at much lower bitrates (all else equal).

And 600Mbs is what XAVC uses in I-frame mode for 4K 60p. This codec allocates a given amount of data per frame, so increase the frame rate and the bitrate scales up proportionally. This is not true for longGOP codecs whose relative efficiency increases substantially with higher frame rates and progressive mode. That's because there is less change between each frame at 60p than 30p - less time has elapsed between them. It's reasonable to keep the same TIME interval (typically 1/2 sec) between I-frames, so going from 30p to 60p means the same no of I-frames per second, but many more difference frames. Since the I-frames are far larger in terms of data than difference frames, that's why a doubling of frame rate means a lot less than doubling data rate.

There's talk of moving to even higher frame rates, 120fps or even higher. If that comes to pass, expect to hear much, much more about long-GOP systems! :-)
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Old December 12th, 2013, 12:25 PM   #266
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

I understand David, but the FDR-AX1 is 8 bit 4:2:0 LongGOP, 60P at 150Mbps and the PXW-Z100 at the same 60P is 600Mbps 10 bit 4:2:2. I would expect a difference between these two. I believe next years update to the firmware will bring LongGOP to the PXW-Z100 and your comments will be absolutely correct.

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Old December 12th, 2013, 05:54 PM   #267
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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I understand David, but the FDR-AX1 is 8 bit 4:2:0 LongGOP, 60P at 150Mbps and the PXW-Z100 at the same 60P is 600Mbps 10 bit 4:2:2. I would expect a difference between these two. I believe next years update to the firmware will bring LongGOP to the PXW-Z100 and your comments will be absolutely correct.
OK. The only thing I'd say is that remember for 4K, chroma resolution at 4:2:0 will be 1920x1080 - full HD luminance, in other words. Since there is debate about "will we actually notice the difference between 4K and 1080?", then will 4:2:2 at 4K really make much difference compared to 4:2:0.....?

Colour subsampling may have been pretty important in the days of SD and interlace, I'd argue much less so with progressive and HD, and less still in 4K days.

Of course, you may still argue that if you're getting a 4K camera primarily for HD - but with a cropping ability - you need the higher chroma/luminance ratios in the crop......?
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Old December 13th, 2013, 04:19 PM   #268
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

Alister Chapman took the PXW-Z100 for a spin while in town for our workshop. The card had 25GB of footage but I deleted some of the files and left eight clips. I zipped it up and put it on media fire for you to download and try out in your own system. The video is of downtown Austin. Last weekend was winter. Yes. Winter only lasts one weekend here. This is it. Go to this page and scroll down. Download time depends on how fast your connection is. This file is 2.5GB.

Omega - Sales - PXW-Z100

I posted this in a different thread but saw there was a lot of conversation here too.
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Old December 13th, 2013, 10:10 PM   #269
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

Holy moly, Thank youuuuuu!
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Old December 14th, 2013, 10:47 AM   #270
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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Originally Posted by David Heath View Post
Not necessarily. There is no reason longGOP can't be 4:2:2 and 10 bit, and in terms of general compression quality, then you can expect a longGOP system to be more efficient in terms of quality v bitrate than an I-frame only one.
Only thing is the spec for XAVC-S is currently limited to 4:2:0 and 8 bit. If there is 4:2:2 10bit Long-GOP, it almost certainly cannot be in the XAVC-S spec. It would have to be a new XAVC-LongG spec.
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