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Old December 21st, 2013, 11:19 PM   #331
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

Yes but its not 4K its really the replacement for the AX2000/NX5U with new sensors and different recording options like AVCHD 2.0 and just memory cards no FMU128 option. etc Nice camera but not enough for me to change my NX5U.

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Old December 31st, 2013, 03:34 AM   #332
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

Just a general question ... when is this camera going to get its own sub forum, now that units are shipping ?

But a more specific question to current owners ....

[1] Is this camera worth buying as a replacement and upgrade to the NX5U? i.e Are you super happy with your purchase ? ** The samples on the net have underwhelmed me but again, 4K is not meant for a HD screen or YT.

[2] Is this camera just a waypoint to a better option 4K soon (maybe another brand), hence making this a poor investment. Any guesses ?

I am looking to possibly pick one up in the USA when I pass through in January, because what I want is better resolution, better data rate, better colour sampling (without a Ninja) in the same R&G form factor and 20X lens as my NX5U. Just looking for some comfort before dropping 6K.

[3] Which retailer currently has best price ? USA or Canada

Thanks in advance

Justin.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 06:11 AM   #333
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

The Z100 will not be as good in low light. The pixels are much smaller compared to the NX5U. We are a DVINFO sponsor, have the camera in stock and have some footage from the media card that you can download and import into your edit system:

Omega - Sales - PXW-Z100
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Old December 31st, 2013, 09:11 AM   #334
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

I have the FDR-AX1 and an NX5U and I do not think either of these 4K cameras are a replacement for the NX5U for a number of reasons. They are maybe 2 stops slower so if you work in a low light environment they will not be good for you as your main camera. Although switch layout is much same as the NX5U they do not have smooth gain switching. Expected on the FDR-AX1 like the AX2000 and NX5U differences I expected this feature to be on the PXW-Z100 but I cannot find in the manual so a major omission if it really isn't there. In good light in a semi auto mode the FDR-AX1 produces a beautiful image much better than the NX5U. PXW-Z100 with 10bit XAVC codec should have an even better image but will use memory at a fast rate !!! Just not viable for long form recording which is why I got the FDR-AX1.

Edited in Edius and downconverted to 1920x1080 with Lanczos3 the images are lovely even in low light and are better than the CX700/NX30U for example in similar light conditions with just a little more noise since it is about a stop slower than these cameras. Downconverted this way there is definitely more resolution in the image compared to the NX5U or the CX700/NX30U I use though .

I will wait to replace my NX5U until there is a larger sensor model to give better low light. Dream is a camcorder with the 1" sensor in the RX10. Not too big so that I can get good larger depth of field but big enough to have good low light performance.

Looking at examples on the WEB may not do justice to these camera as one has no idea how the video was prepared for the site. I find also that in camera downconvert is not as good as software downconvert using Lanczos3, another parameter that may degrade the images one sees on the internet.

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Old December 31st, 2013, 01:37 PM   #335
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

I almost see this camera as a direct descendent of the Sony Z1 in a lot of ways.

When the Z1 dropped, we were used to the low light performance of the PD150/170 and the Z1 certainly was a light pig compared to those. The HD footage was decent - not great, but decent - but where it shone was downcoverted footage to SD.

I shot two international docs for broadcast on the Z1 - one in Germany and one on the Tamil Nadu coast of India. I LOVE the way the footage looks in SD. The HD? Well...

Then not all THAT long after, the EX1 rears it's head. We initially didn't embrace it, despite the leap forward in image quality and low light performance, due to the media cost.

I think we are again at THAT time in camera development where everyone is scurrying around to produce the best 4k camera they can at a price point that will actually get folks to spring for them, knowing full well that whatever decision they make will be obsolete in a year. Because frankly if 4k doesn't catch on and sell some units, there is no impetus to make cameras.

The answer to the age old question of "Do I buy?" is "Can I make money on it RIGHT NOW?"

I'm in the market for a 4k solution right now. I prefer the look of the footage coming out of the JVC but don't want to be tied to 4 SD cards mainly due to the fact I'm a run-and-gun videographer, not a filmmaker so media management scares me a little around multiple cards as a solo shooter. The Z100 footage seems underwhelming. The F55 would be an option if I had that sort of cash. I don't want a RAW workflow so RED is out...

It is a complicated market for sure. Some WANT RAW, some want an easily editable but decent codec. At the same time, everyone wants long run times and cheap media.

I'm just thankful I remember the days of BetaSP 30 minute loads at $30 per tape. Keeps things in perspective for me.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 05:40 PM   #336
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

Manufacturers skipped 1080p60. Why ? The jump from 480i60 to 720p60 was enough to sell HD over NTSC/DVD since just about every cable TV channel is 720p60, including the best-looking channels such as NatGeo. Why wouldn't it be the same with 1080p60 on larger 75+ " displays ?

1080p60 wouldn't be any more of a light hog than 720p60 since most full-raster 1920x1080 sensors are down sampled to 720p60.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 09:25 PM   #337
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

It's more like broadcast standards skipped 1080p60. They're going straight to 4K60 or 4K120.

If they do choose 4K120 for broadcast, the F5 and F55 are already obsolete.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 09:53 PM   #338
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

4K120 WILL NOT happen as a broadcast standard.

No chance.

8k will happen first.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 11:30 PM   #339
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

RE: At the same time, everyone wants long run times and cheap media.

Agree Shaun. The most concerning issue with the Z100 right now is the record time of 4K onto the QXD cards. For quite expensive media, the record time is very short; too short to be practical.

I was not aware of the JVC at the time of posting my original questions, but having looked up the specifications I can see their 4 SDXC cards is an interesting approach and offers better record times, but buying 4 of those cards at a decent size starts to add up too, especially if you factor in the breakage rate of those cards is high. (the read/write switch has always been a weak point).
** The 10x optical zoom is also a deal breaker, with the JVC as I manly shoot outdoors.

The Z100 will get a long GOP option if Sony keep their promise to release a firmware update (the Nx5U did not get much post release love...); but by Q2 there is likely to be other 4K options around.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 11:44 PM   #340
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

Agreed. Some people proposed 120 Hz as some new, unifying frame rate. I don't know what they were thinking. 120 Hz isn't a multiple of 50 and it's too fast for shooting under fluorescent lights in 50 Hz countries. A 1/100 shutter and 100 Hz frame rate is as fast as you can go under those conditions. 300 Hz could be a unifying standard for 50 and 60 Hz video systems but that's too many bits and too much of a lighting demand for too little gain.

Certainly, people are looking at fast frame rates for sports, but there are practical issues to be considered. Higher resolution is much easier to solve.

The more immediate question is whether we should do away with the 1/1.001 frame rates (23.976, 29.97...) and go to integer rates (24, 30...) Sounds good on paper but how do you intercut legacy content while avoiding all potential glitches and errors?
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Old January 1st, 2014, 04:45 AM   #341
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

I'm thinking it would be digital cinema that would use 120 first to divide to future HFR frame rates. Broadcast would still be 4K60p.
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Old January 1st, 2014, 02:21 PM   #342
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

The math would be in the neighbourhood of 8x the potential bandwidth (before considering increased efficiencies due to duplicate pixels or suppressible detail and whatever is gained by h.265) in a jump from a maximum of 1080P30 to UHD/4kP60...

Not for a while...
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 01:12 PM   #343
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

I'm really not convinced that we will see 4k 60p any time soon. We could right now convert much more easily from current 25/30fps HD to 50/60fps HD, but it's not happening and I don't think it ever will.

In my opinion and from what I'm hearing from broadcasters etc there will be an increase in the use and distribution of 4K at 24/25/30fps first. Later there may be some higher frame rate usage, but broadcasters and production companies etc are pretty scared of the massive files that this would involve for production and distribution. Heck most of them are scared of 24p 4K.

HEVC looks like it will offer similar bandwidth for 4K as for current HD. Higher frame rates means more bandwidth and where that would come from for traditional broadcasting no-one knows. Web distribution is a possibility.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 02:02 PM   #344
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

4K at 24, 25 or 30 will start on the web first, as Netflix is experimenting with that at the moment. Web is not the domain for 50p or 60p, so that's where everything's gonna start.

I will say that the F5, F55 and even this camera with 50p and 60p lays the foundation for that for broadcast. I do think H.265/HEVC will be in the next broadcast standard to deliver 50p and 60p.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 02:33 PM   #345
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

I really do not like the slow frame rates so we will miss the nice smooth motion of interlace if we cannot get 60P. Personally I would prefer 60 interlace to 30P. I shot a few clips at 30P on my FDR-AX1 for a piece for final output to Youtube but nothing was really moving so it was fine !!!

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