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Old September 7th, 2013, 02:17 PM   #91
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

This Z100 looks pretty darn nice. But I think I'm going to wait for NAB 2014 and see the new "Z200" before I buy into single small sensor 4k right now.

I think the Z100 is the entry level "PMW-100-class" camera of today. The new "Z200" will have three 1/2 inch sensors that run behind that wonderfull PMW200/EX1 Fujinon lens that we all love so much today.

I have no idea that this is true, but I strongly suspect this camera is in the works as we speak.

"PXW-Z200" should I hold my breath? ;-)

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Old September 7th, 2013, 02:26 PM   #92
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

Another promo video for the PXW-Z100 this time not the FDR-AX1.

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Old September 7th, 2013, 04:29 PM   #93
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

I think to suggest that the AS1 or Z100 are a poor mans F5 or F55 is pushing things a bit. I would say the FS700 is closer to a poor mans F5 than the Z100, even though it can't do 4K without adding extra stuff.

I think the HD from and FS700 will look closer to the 4K from the F5/F55 than the 4K from a Z100 or AS1.

The only thing the Z100 has in common with an F5 is 4K XAVC. It will not have the same dynamic range, noise, sensitivity, DoF etc. Resolution is only a very small part of the whole image quality equation and the end viewer is more likely to notice all the other things before they notice whether its HD or 4K.

The Z100 is more a B camera to the F5/F55 etc.

One interesting consideration is that so far no one has launched a 4K ENG style camera with 2/3" sensors. It's interesting that we have plenty of large sensor cameras and a couple of small sensor 4K cameras (don't forget about the JVC) but nothing in the middle. I wonder if we will ever see one? Certainly shoulder mount cameras are not as ubiquitous as they used to be.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 05:40 PM   #94
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
I think to suggest that the AS1 or Z100 are a poor mans F5 or F55 is pushing things a bit. I would say the FS700 is closer to a poor mans F5 than the Z100, even though it can't do 4K without adding extra stuff.

I think the HD from and FS700 will look closer to the 4K from the F5/F55 than the 4K from a Z100 or AS1.

The only thing the Z100 has in common with an F5 is 4K XAVC. It will not have the same dynamic range, noise, sensitivity, DoF etc. Resolution is only a very small part of the whole image quality equation and the end viewer is more likely to notice all the other things before they notice whether its HD or 4K.

The Z100 is more a B camera to the F5/F55 etc.

One interesting consideration is that so far no one has launched a 4K ENG style camera with 2/3" sensors. It's interesting that we have plenty of large sensor cameras and a couple of small sensor 4K cameras (don't forget about the JVC) but nothing in the middle. I wonder if we will ever see one? Certainly shoulder mount cameras are not as ubiquitous as they used to be.
Sure, the Z100 is no F55. No one here is suggesting such a thing, I'm pretty sure. Obviously, a 1/2.3" sensor will have plenty of drawbacks compared to an S35 sensor.

But as far as this "poor man," the Z100 is as close as I can get to an F55. And neither the FS700 nor the F5 can record 4K internally, without an expensive add-on recorder. At least the F55 and Z100 share this feature. They even share the same codec, minus raw video (I think). The Z100 does it for less than the price of an FS700 body. That's a bargain to this poor man.

And if the Z100 will make a good b-cam to the F55, then that's a huge, huge bonus. I'd settle for b-cam work to an F55 any day. I'd be ecstatic to get such shoots.

I finally got to see a 4K monitor in Best Buy (video shot on an F65, I think). I was floored! I'll take 4K resolution, even if dynamic range and sensitivity is lost on a 1/2.3" chip. For $6,500, you can't have it all.

As far as a 2/3" 4K sensor, let's not forget Panasonic has recently announced such a device. I won't be surprised if it shows up in a shoulder mount design in the near future.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 06:16 PM   #95
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

All this talk of a 1/2.3" chip on this drool worthy cam, remember almost certainly it uses only a 1/3" portion since that is what the lens is designed for.

Last edited by Philip Lipetz; September 7th, 2013 at 07:02 PM.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 06:40 PM   #96
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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All this talk of a 1/2.3" chip on this drool worthy cam, remember almost certainly is uses only a 1/3" portion since that is what the leans is designed for.
OK. I'm good with that.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 06:41 PM   #97
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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Another promo video for the PXW-Z100 this time not the FDR-AX1. PXW-Z100 (XDCAM 4K Handheld Camcorder) - YouTube

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Thanks, Ron! Nice video.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 08:21 PM   #98
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

Another piece of information that is of interest as i am sure the early information on the FDR-AX1 showed it having LongGOP XAVCS 8bit 4:2:0 and AVCHD with the PXW-Z100 just XAVC 10bit 4:2:2. The current spec for the FDR-AX1 does not now show AVCHD and a note that says AVCHD will come in an upgrade in 2014 together with a USB and HDMI upgrade !! Seems like both will get the upgrade and the difference will then be just XAVCS 8bit 4:2:0 or XAVC 10 bit 4:2:2 with HD-SDI etc I will always need the LongGOP for the length of my shoots so as much as I like the idea of 10bit 4:2:2 unless it possible to connect up a 1T drive it won't work for me !!!

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Old September 7th, 2013, 08:42 PM   #99
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
I think the HD from and FS700 will look closer to the 4K from the F5/F55 than the 4K from a Z100 or AS1.

The only thing the Z100 has in common with an F5 is 4K XAVC. It will not have the same dynamic range, noise, sensitivity, DoF etc. Resolution is only a very small part of the whole image quality equation and the end viewer is more likely to notice all the other things before they notice whether its HD or 4K.
Especially if you are viewing on a monitor smaller than 65 inches or so. I'm really not excited about
this camera. To me it smells like Sony trying to push 4k....just like they tried to push 3D. I just don't see
the need for 4K for consumers. For pros, yeah when you are making a movie for a 60 foot screen it
makes sense. But for small one man video companies, the pipeline just doesn't seem to be there
to create, edit, and deliver in 4K for your clients....and this camera seems to be directly pointed at
those 'prosumers'. But hey, what do I know? Stills camera makers used th 'megapixel race' to keep
new cameras selling, so the video camera makers need to keep the 'resolution wars' going. I for one
am not buying into 4k until the tech is much more developed......and this is coming from a guy who
owns a FS700.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 09:16 PM   #100
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

Looking at these two sister 4k cameras, it seems the AX1 has been given a VERY aggressive feature set. In fact, I'm surprised it was not branded a "4K NXCAM". If there is a new 4K NXCAM like this slated in the future,...how could it possibly sit above the Handycam version but below the XDCAM version? There is almost no marketing room for it in this type of camera.

This leads me to wonder,...for future 4K cameras, could Sony dissolve the NXCAM brand and simply place all "pro" and "semi pro" cameras in a wider market spanning XDCAM fleet?

In other words, could "XDCAM" now cover the market range that NXCAM used to cover and leave "Handycam" to pick up the "low end Pro"? (I started thinking about this when the PMW100 was released)

Look at the L battery now being used on the Z100. That's the first XDCAM camera to use the cheaper L battery over a traditional XDCAM BP battery.

I dunno, just it seems they are pushing XDCAM further down into NXCAM territory and moving "Handycam" further up into NXCAM turf. (NXCAM is getting squeezed from the top and the bottom!)

Could the new XAVC codec make NXCAM 4K simply no longer necessary?

Is that crazy talk?
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Old September 7th, 2013, 09:34 PM   #101
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

One could look back to the FX1 and Z1U to get the analogy for the AX1 and Z100, the FX1 was branded as a Handycam because it lacked XLR inputs and the Z1U had PAL/NTSC switching. I'd be surprised if the AX1 has PAL/NTSC.

I'm pretty certain a new sensor is coming down the pipe with a camera developed around it. A 2/3'' single sensor Fixed lens using BP-U perhaps? You can't fit a prism nor is it possible to make a prism that has 4K resolving resolution for 2/3'', so a 2/3'' that de-bayers to exactly 2160 lines resolution could be what's next. Panasonic is doing it first, so I wouldn't doubt Sony would be far behind.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 10:20 PM   #102
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

The FDR-AX1 has 60, 50, 30, 25, 24 speeds so does cover the range of PAL/NTSC. I think you are missing a range out with just quoting the FX1 and Z1 as there was the AX2000 and NX5U that appear to be the basis of these new 4K models with the AX2000 in this case having XLR's but missing some other features from the NX5U like picture profile details etc, next in the lineup after the tape based HDV cameras and now the 4K family. I too think the NXCAM family will be restricted to AVCHD camera and likely top out with the NX30U as I expect the NX5U to be discontinued as there will be little point with the FDR-AX1 when it has AVCHD covering all the bases. I see the PXW-Z100 as the poor mans F5/F55 or as a B camera to those high end cameras. When the firmware upgrade comes so that the PXW-Z100 could operate as a FDR-AX1 spec too it would be a really nice camera with a great range of features. XAVC 10bit, XAVCS 8bit and AVCHD why would anyone look at the NX5U, PMW100 or the PMW160 ? I would not be surprised to see Sony come out with 4K versions of the NEX EA50 and the VG30 ( they are really the large sensor cousins to the AX2000 and NX5U ) to cover the low end large sensor market with XAVCS versions leaving the FS700 for the high end NEX.

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Old September 8th, 2013, 06:26 AM   #103
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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Originally Posted by Matt Davis View Post
NOTE WELL: no, this is not going to provide a 'wifi EVF', but it does provide a sort of Camera Control Unit,
Why cannot a good HD tablet be used as EVF, Matt? Of course for monitoring only, but still much better than another field monitor...

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Old September 8th, 2013, 07:48 AM   #104
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

Has Sony R&D moved completely into XAVC 4k now? (Are they "finished" with HD?)

Will the PMW300 go down in history as Sony's very last 1920x1080 XDCAM camera? (And the NX30 for NXCAM?)

Is Sony's intent to let the current HD models just fade out one by one?
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Old September 8th, 2013, 07:58 AM   #105
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Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM

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Are they "finished" with HD?
Noooooo!

Of course, they need to signal that they like the XQD card format to record MXF data onto, and that 4K is the new HD, but it seems to be following the 'HDV' trajectory. The Z100 is a Bellwether - the sheep you put a bell onto so that other sheep follow it. The Bellwether has understood the way things work, the way things are going, all the Strength/Weakness/Opportunity/Threat stuff from its own ("unique") perspective.

The other side of the Z100 is it does very strong 4:2:2 10 bit HD. It will ("soon") embrace AVCHD as its proxy format. This tells me that Sony - at this level - are seeing AVHCD as a 'DV' sort of thing, There are versions of XAVC which will be functionally kissing cousins to XDCAM-EX - 1080 35 and 50 mbit XAVC - that will feel functionally identical.

We are entering a moment of flux like we did with HD. The Z100 is also firmly planted into the HD market, and I guess this will continue for the next half decade or so. Who's making 720p a big thing at the moment? Nope - but FWIW the Z100 will do 720p on AVCHD on that firmware upgrade.
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