New Sony RX100 mkIII announced

[Dave Blackhurst]

On the audio feed, I got thinking that I seem to recall an audio "in" on that MULTI plug.... hmm... will go back and take another look, but there SHOULD be one there, as it "mirrors" the MiS shoe that vanished with the Mk3. Accessing it may be an entirely different ball of cheese, but I *think* it could be done...
(UPDATE) found what notes I have on the MULTI... ugh, several "unknown" pins, and audio "outs", which could be "flipped" to "ins" on the old A/V interface with the right "trigger"... ALL undocumented... fun fun fun! Any Sony engineers lurking that want to slip me the "secret code" of the MULTI jack and MiS?


The bottom line on "4K" is that Sony did it with THIS sensor and processor (AX100), it's not "perfect" but it's quite good within context. The failure to implement the feature on the RX10 and 100M3 is a HUGE stuff up - they could have really turned the market on it's ear (or maybe that's WHY they didn't?!)

Is 4K a "necessity" today...how many people are delivering in 4K... and how many viewers are expecting to see 4K? Yeah, exactly...

Nope, this is the "cutting edge", but once you've seen the potential, it's hard to ignore. I picked up the AX100 to "LEARN" what might be possible (and cropping to 1080 works a treat). Given the apparent sensitivity to motion, it may not be my first choice for shooting with all the time, but I'll definitely USE it.

Would I LIKE to have the option in the AX100's Cybershot "siblings"? HECK yeah, and I think that's what we're all saying... but think about this, with some of the "critics" of the AX100, can you imagine the SCREAMING if they put the capability in an $800 camera, and every soccer mom and her dog ran into "problems" with 4K? Nightmare would be the word for that pushback...

Just as some of us are "putting our toes" in the 4K pool, and working out how to use it, Sony probably is too, before going "all in"...

I do think the XAVC S 50Mbps/60p is both a nice feature, and an indication of motion in the direction of 4K... little steps, but couldn't they create a special firmware hack or something for us "test pilots"?!?

And as always, use the right "tool" for YOU and YOUR needs... it would just be sort cool to have really nice 4K in your pocket, that's all, especially when it's clearly POSSIBLE!

From my view, the RX10 covers a LOT of what I'll use a camera for, the RX100 (including the M2 and M3 versions) makes it portable/pocketable with some limitations, and the AX100, well, it completes a "package" for a small light multicam capability for some darn fine 1080p video, with maybe a little 4K mixed in! All with the same sensor and general "look".

[Dylan Couper]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

It was only mentioned that 4K would have made the rx100III perfect (hence the "cigar" quote) but no-one mentioned it had to be below 800 dollar, only you did. Not sure where you are heading with your comments but they sure are not adding anything constructive to this thread.

Noa, I know there's a touch of language barrier here so I understand where you are missing my point in the subtext of what I'm writing. Here it is:

4k wouldn't have made the RX100mk3 perfect - only different. Dave makes an awesome point above in that 4k may, for some people, have made it worse.

"Perfect" is subjective from person to person. For me, I don't really care about 4k... perfection for me would have come closer from better functionality, a 3.5mm mic input, mini front grip, a shoe mount and being 3mm thinner - but maybe that combination would be impossible. To me the EVF is a waste of time, but to others it makes the camera perfect. To some the new lens is perfect, to others it's too short. In short, since perfection is impossible, the expectation of perfection is...

My point in bringing up the F55 is that often what we want IS here, we just aren't prepared to pay the price for it, either in cash or weight or size or post production or some other reason.

Bottom line, if you aren't happy with the camera that you can get today, you won't be happy with the camera you can get tomorrow either, because by the time you get your hands on it, it will be the camera of yesterday.

[Dylan Couper]

I'll also add... I'm probably going to buy one, regardless of what it has or doesn't. It's still the highest quality pocket camera you can buy.
Still... if only it had a pop up shotgun mic instead of that useless EVF it'd be perf... ah damn it! :)

[Ken Ross]

Originally Posted by Dylan Couper

I'll also add... I'm probably going to buy one, regardless of what it has or doesn't. It's still the highest quality pocket camera you can buy.
Still... if only it had a pop up shotgun mic instead of that useless EVF it'd be perf... ah damn it! :)

'Useless' EVF? I think an "IMO" would have been appropriate here...even with the tongue in cheek. ;)

Seriously though, I would not buy a camera that had no 'useless' EVF. It is impossible to ascertain correct focus, color and often even composition, with an LCD in bright sunlight.

But hey, whatever floats your boat. I'll probably wait for the mk lV when they include 'useless 4K'.

Oh, and it has to be under $800. :)

[Dylan Couper]

Aha, perfect example Ken! :)
Perfection is impossible, it all comes down to making the most amount of people happy, and us video shooters probably represent a tiny part of the RX100 market.

Ok, lets get back to the camera now...

EVF!
For me, an EVF has never been a critical part of a P&S pocket camera (which is what this is to me). However, I'll say I'm impressed by the design and addition of the EVF. Not something I'll use that often, but a very cool addition. The full 180 flip screen is also nice, though I'm worried the extra width will make it unpocketable for me, as it just barely fits in jean pockets now.

And yes, I was joking about omitting it in favor of a shotgun mic... Though now that I think of it, a pop up shotgun mic would be awesome.

For the lens, I had a Panasonic LX7 (I think that was the model) that had a lens in the 24-70ish range. I did miss the extra telephoto of other 100mm + ranged P&S cameras, so I expect I'll miss it on this as well. I don't know if the faster telephoto with shorter range will be a good trade off to me, as most long shots I'm taking are outdoors with plenty of light. Time will tell.

[Dave Blackhurst]

Nah, the MkIV/4K will be $950 - RX100, $650, RX100M2 $750, RX100M3 $850, Sony will just add features and raise you a hundred!

I'm in the "NEED VF" camp - the beautiful AX100 LCD was "mostly" USELESS in desert sun the other day!

I'm worrying about the extra 2.5mm, the M2 outgrew the little case I used for the M1 by "just a smidge" and the "smidges" are adding up, just like when I step on a scale! Wondering if it will fit the import underwater shell as well - certainly will need modding, as the M1 shell did, to fit the M2...

I'm REALLY torn on the reduced long end of the lens range - on one hand it'll still be around 140mm with CIZ, I'll have the RX10 for "long shots", and the faster lens couldn't hurt. BUT, I have a horrible feeling this will "come up short", AND not be quite pocketable...

This is one of those "give and take" situations that's really frustrating!

[Phill Pendleton]

One upside, just bought the Mk2 new for just under $600 aussie bucks!
No VF for me, its just for family use.

[Noa Put]

Here the mkII has also gone below 600 euro and that's with 21% tax included. If you don't want the greatest and latest it often is worth while to wait when Sony releases a new model, prizes drop considerably on the "old" model. I see Panasonic is doing somewhat the same as a GH3 can be had for 880 euro which is a few hundred euro below the introductory prize.

[Dylan Couper]

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

I'm worrying about the extra 2.5mm, the M2 outgrew the little case I used for the M1 by "just a smidge" and the "smidges" are adding up, just like when I step on a scale!

Yeah... that's actually the #1 criteria for me. If it doesn't fit in my pocket, I don't need it and won't buy it. There are much better cameras in the same price range that don't fit in my pocket either.

And as I add on smidges too, my pockets seem to get smaller. :)

[Dave Blackhurst]

Bigger pockets... that's what we need...

The Mk2 is a fine camera, hasn't seen as much use since getting the RX10, but still goes along for the ride! Not a big hurry to get a Mk3...but looks like it's selling well, so a lightly used one will be available soon enough!

[Dave Blackhurst]

Did a little fiddling on the Sony web site, putting the M2 alongside the M3 and matching the scale.. There is little if any added protrusion on the back side of the cam - looks like it's mainly if not entirely the lens sticking out a bit more that accounts for the 2.7mm difference in stated specs. Probably won't be that big a deal, and since the RX10 would be the "big gun" with the longer lens, I can see the RX100M3 actually being an interesting upgrade.

From the limited test shots I've had the chance to take with the AX100, the XAVC S at a higher bitrate looks a bit better than the AVCHD, and for most use, should be rather nice... even if it's not "4K". As I work with the AX100, 4K/30p has it's pluses and minuses, I think it's not ready for the "average" consumer shooter quite yet, though it can look quite stunning, with careful camera technique!

I'd love it if Sony put out a special firmware "enthusiast" version that COULD access 4K (we KNOW the sensor and processor CAN do it), only available aftermarket with a secret handshake or something! These cameras BEG for firmware updates to allow deeper access to the BionzX capabilities!

[Charles W. Hull]

I read through this thread and see there aren't any updates after the RX100III came out (although reviews are all over the web) so I thought I'd add my 2 cents. I've had the camera about a week and a half, shooting my usual test videos and stills.

It fits my pocket. I previously had a RX100II, and there is little size difference - just the lens sticks out a little further.

The XAVC S format is a huge improvement over AVCHD. It makes the III a useable video camera, where I never incorporated any video from the RX100II into anything serious. Plus the MP4 plays directly with Mac QuickTime for reviewing clips (AVCHD is a pain with Mac). The CIZ zoom function works well out to 140 mm for video. The ND filter is wonderful - don't know if it is a real filter or just a gain change, but without this it would be a poor video camera.

I wish it had audio in. And I had expected more with the EVF, it is awfully small, although it works in a pinch in bright sunlight. But you can do a lot with the monitor brightness all the way up and with the fully articulating monitor.

It took a while to get comfortable enough with the interface so I could quickly change settings. But finally it seems natural. I'll use the RX100III as a pocket camera, and for hand held video in tight spaces, and I'll try it as a B camera and see how it goes.

[Dan Carter]

An initial project with the Sony DSC-RX100M3. New video features this upgrade provides are impressive.

XAVC 60p codec edits better than AVCHD in FCPX. Video improvement over M2 is likely due more to full sensor read than XAVC codec. Unfortunately, XAVC 30/24p are so prone to moire as to be unusable.

The LCD is much less fiddly and useful than the RX100M2. No more squeak and scrape when opening from bottom.

The EVF is very useable for a compact. Better than hoped for. Easy to forget to pull the eyepiece out, but more use will make a habit.

The ND may eliminate need for a polarizer for exteriors. Most of this project was shot with ND and no polarizer.

Zebras obviously minimize incorrect exposure issues.

My RX100M2 had constant, slight focus pump issues with wide, distant landscape shots. If manual focus wasn't used for these shots, clips would be unusable. The RX100M3 has no such issue. Big, big thanks Sony.

RX100M2 Active SteadyShot seemed no better than Standard. RX100M3 Active SteadyShot is much improved, and Intelligent Active is a step above Active. However, Active requires image crop, and Intelligent Active even more.

Video Clear Image Zoom, like the RX10, is very usable but soft after 115.

Overall the camera seems more responsive.

Phoenix Desert Botanical Garden (Sony RX100M3) on Vimeo

For an RX100M2 comparison: vimeo.com/79542495

Sony DSC-RX100M3
Sirui T005KX Tripod
P&C Grip for handhelds
XAVC 60P/50Mbps

[Charles W. Hull]

Dan, nice work. This really shows what this miniature RX100III is capable of, and how good the XAVC S codec is.

If it were me I'd lift the black level a little and drop the saturation some in this video; I think this would give it a nicer look.

Today I've been working to match the video color of the RX100III with my other cameras so I can work it in with them. It's more is there a formula I can use in Color Finesse that will get the RX100III video close to the XF100 and to Canon DSLRs. I'm not there yet, but I think it will get there.