New Panasonic GH5 Official

[Gabe Strong]

Sony, the company who came out with the A6500 when the ink was hardly dry on the A6300
is 'done' making cameras? Not sure how much attention you have been paying the last couple years.
And would take the wager that Sony is selling off their camera part of their business, but let's just say
that would not really be fair on my part to do so.

[Steve Burkett]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

+1

The C100 mark 2 is also a good example that it's not all about the codec, I"m sure those owners won't all jump ship to get a GH5.

Many former users I know of that camera have already jumped ship to the Sony FS5; can't blame them given that the C100 line has stalled since the Mark 2.

I don't think the GH5 will harm Sony anymore than the GH4 did and there was similar over reaction then. Its just excitement at a product that actually progresses video options for DSLR Video. You couldn't say that about the Canon 5D Mark IV. Like any camera, its not going to be perfect; it'll have its issues, low light will always be a limitations of the sensor despite advances. Still it's progress and that can only be good for camera development across other brands if they're prepared to pick up the gauntlet.

[Ron Evans]

Well Panasonic with the new cameras has done some self protecting of the Varicam line. The UX180/HC-X1 do not have 10 bit at all so projecting them away from the broadcast line etc. The GH5 is a still camera format with interchangeable lenses. Different market. However for event work the combination is very good I think. UHD 60P from all to crop in a HD timeline which is my focus. Yes I agree that Sony could compete, the question is will it and when. Sony have always delivered lots of models that are fundamentally the same with marketing restrictions. My FDR-AX1 is typical when compared to the PXW-Z100. Clearly the same product. Or the PJ970 and the NX30U. Personally going forward I think this approach is flawed and costs lots of money . People will use their cell phone or want something a lot better. The camera business in the low end for stills or camcorders is where the hole will develop and removing useful features for the enthusiest will not be that useful. The high end and broadcast have real needs of SDI, timecode etc that provide enough differentiation for a model change and consequently cost a lot more because the market will be smaller. If you want something the masses do not need then you will pay proportionally more for something that doesn't appear to be much. It is the one mistake I think Panasonic has made in these new cameras. If they had given the UX180 10 bit, 4:2:2 then they could have charged much more for it and likely sold them too. Are they also protecting the P2 lineup or is this lineup going to go in favor of the new faster UHS 11 like the GH5 and we will see a UXxxx with UHS 11 card slots, 10 bit 4:2:2 that would be a very nice product. Adopting the consumer WiFi app rather than the one now for that range would also be an improvement !!!

Ron Evans

[Pete Cofrancesco]

I think there is an over reaction to 422 because its a pro feature that is now becoming available to the prosumer that and slow motion. I mean look if phones started offering 422 would everyone ditch their dslrs in favor of smart phones? At the end of the day there are different categories of cameras designed for different needs and one thing like a codec isn't going to change that.

[Ronald Jackson]

Wish they'd bring out an updated AF-101. I love MFT, have some lenses, like, quite fond of in fact, my brace of GH4s but GH4 and 5 never a "proper"video camera.

Ron

[Cliff Totten]

Originally Posted by Ron Evans

Well Panasonic with the new cameras has done some self protecting of the Varicam line. The UX180/HC-X1 do not have 10 bit at all so projecting them away from the broadcast line etc. The GH5 is a still camera format with interchangeable lenses. Different market. However for event work the combination is very good I think. UHD 60P from all to crop in a HD timeline which is my focus. Yes I agree that Sony could compete, the question is will it and when. Sony have always delivered lots of models that are fundamentally the same with marketing restrictions. My FDR-AX1 is typical when compared to the PXW-Z100. Clearly the same product. Or the PJ970 and the NX30U. Personally going forward I think this approach is flawed and costs lots of money . People will use their cell phone or want something a lot better. The camera business in the low end for stills or camcorders is where the hole will develop and removing useful features for the enthusiest will not be that useful. The high end and broadcast have real needs of SDI, timecode etc that provide enough differentiation for a model change and consequently cost a lot more because the market will be smaller. If you want something the masses do not need then you will pay proportionally more for something that doesn't appear to be much. It is the one mistake I think Panasonic has made in these new cameras. If they had given the UX180 10 bit, 4:2:2 then they could have charged much more for it and likely sold them too. Are they also protecting the P2 lineup or is this lineup going to go in favor of the new faster UHS 11 like the GH5 and we will see a UXxxx with UHS 11 card slots, 10 bit 4:2:2 that would be a very nice product. Adopting the consumer WiFi app rather than the one now for that range would also be an improvement !!!

Ron Evans

I suspect that the reason why Panasonic left 10 off the UX180 is because they were forced to by Sony. And yes, I know all my talk about Panasonic buying Sony chips will severely upsets many Panasonic fans. But,...here I go again; I "suspect" Sony fabs those 1 inch-type sensors for Panasonic. (with Panny's pixel count spec) "IF" this is the case, I "suspect" that Sony decided NOT sell those chips to any Panny camera with 10bit enabled. Sony did this deliberately to protect the Z150's 10bit 1080 mode and any possible new Sony 2017 model in the works right now. I'm guessing that was written in the sale negotiation. Agreed,...this is a big "IF" statement of mine.

Again, for anybody that finds all this "Sony selling it's semiconductor tech to Panasonic" talk aggravating, sorry but Sony and Canon are not just "competitors" of Sony, there are also "customers" of Sony too. That's a fact. There is that known relationship there. (although, yes, we cannot say specifically whether the UX-180 has a Sony chip in it yet.)

CT

[Noa Put]

And yes, I know all my talk about Panasonic buying Sony chips will severely piss of many Panasonic fans

I don't know where you get that idea, it looks like you are the only one here who takes this way to personal, it's just a camera you know :) Who cares where Panasonic gets their sensors.

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

I think there is an over reaction to 422 because its a pro feature that is now becoming available to the prosumer that and slow motion. I mean look if phones started offering 422 would everyone ditch their dslrs in favor of smart phones? At the end of the day there are different categories of cameras designed for different needs and one thing like a codec isn't going to change that.

I think the difference may be that with UHD and maybe higher resolutions to come there is the opportunity to crop into the image and create a different perspective. The better the source the more opportunity. A video camera on tripod zooming and panning a scene is traditional but there is another way to do that by taking a very high resolution fixed and then crop/pan/zoom in post. That is what I want to do and have done so with my FDR-AX1. Unfortunately the AX1 is just not up to this task very well in low light. In good light it is fine. When one approaches video this way the traditional camcorder arrangement is not needed but how the GH5 with XLR etc and maybe the external recording to a Atomos Inferno gives a totally different way of shooting. Rather than standing up and managing a tripod mounted camcorder one can sit down and manage camera with a WIFi application once the general setup is complete.

I do think that small still cameras and video camcorders will ( are ) get replaced with cell phones. The transition is also taking place between still and video cameras. Products like the FZ2500 for instance is a pretty good camcorder with most of the features of a normal camcorder form factor . Doesn't have XLR but neither do any of the other products at this price. Would not be surprised that an update to the FZ2500 will get a shoe that takes the new XLR unit for the GH5 !!

Ron Evans

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

I think there is an over reaction to 422 because its a profeature

There are a lot of geeks out there who wet their pants when 4:2:2 and 10 bit is mentioned and they most likely will end up using the camera in their backyard shooting their cat or dog with v-log and applying all kind of luts to their footage. It's just a few who actually need or know how to make most use of that 10 bit codec.

I recently saw "Intrigue" shot by John Brawley's team with a omd em5II (vimeo.com/178135545) which is a camera no-one even is talking about when it comes to video but it was one of the most "cinematic" looking films I have seen so far shot with a m4/3 camera.

I only wish Panasonic would improve their autofocussing system to match what the sony a6500 or canon c100 can do.

[Cliff Totten]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

I don't know where you get that idea, it looks like you are the only one here who takes this way to personal, it's just a camera you know :) Who cares where Panasonic gets their sensors.

Me? lol,..I dont take this stuff personal but I know that others sometimes do.

I had one guy get mad at me on another forum telling me stuff like "Panasonic doesn't need to buy anybody else's sensors. You make it sound like they NEED Sony or something to make a good camera!"

I'm like, "Dude, I'm not slamming anybody's camera, I'm only asking questions"

For me?...haha...I dont give a ratt's butt,..I just find it interesting in the industry sense.

CT ;-)

[Gary Huff]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

I recently saw "Intrigue" shot by John Brawley's team with a omd em5II (vimeo.com/178135545) which is a camera no-one even is talking about when it comes to video but it was one of the most "cinematic" looking films I have seen so far shot with a m4/3 camera.

And yet they recorded it to an external recorder to get 10-bit 4:2:2 ProRes files.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Cliff you make good points in regards to the sensor scenario you laid out. I could see Sony stipulating that Panny could not offer internal 422 in a camera (ux180) that would directly compete against their z150. I might not agree or like theses decisions but its nice to understand the motivations .

I also agree people get attached to their equipment and respond emotional defending their camera. I treat the camera as a tool and don't define myself by it. I currently own a Nikon, JVC, Canon, Panasonic and Sony cameras. I'll buy whatever is the best tool at that time regardless of the make.

Ron despite your creative approaches dslr is designed to take pictures first with the added ability to film video. Whether you can find ways around the obstacles doesn't change the fact that they will never replace eng cameras and that's ok.

[Steve Burkett]

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

Whether you can find ways around the obstacles doesn't change the fact that they will never replace eng cameras and that's ok.

They're not obstacles if you're using the camera in such a way that the form factor favours the DLSR. Wedding work I found when trying out the AF101A years back was a nightmare and I quickly went back to the DSLR. Why? Because that form factor worked best for that scenario. Not suggesting the standard ENG camera has no place because of course they do. However even on larger productions, their kit will include GoPros, DSLR's and larger camera, each employed where they are best utilised. I'd happily use what some would deem a 'proper video camera' in jobs where such a camera would better serve me than a DSLR.

[Steve Burkett]

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten

And yes, I know all my talk about Panasonic buying Sony chips will severely upset many Panasonic fans.

Hello, I'm a Panasonic Fan and I'm not pissed or even remotely bothered who makes the sensor; as long as it works well. I think those who are bothered care more about camera tech than they do about filming. Same sort of people who feel the GH5 is a Sony/Canon killer or the end of Proper Video Cameras and all such Bullshit the forums have alas given a home to.

[John McCully]

The GH5 announcement is certainly reverberating around our world. I, for one, am delighted and excited, and not entirely surprised. I am sorely tempted to jump in and pre-order but no, not today at least.

This announcement has focused attention on Sony, at least in this thread, and what this might mean to us Sony fans. Given my history in a huge multi-national corporation I tend to think about long term strategic planning, the business case and profitability and that's my bias.

Here is a link I found interesting. It is a report on the Corporate Strategy Meeting - June 29, 2016. Makes interesting reading. The number of times he says 'I believe' one might conclude it was a religious meeting and of course in some respects it is. Cybershot gets one mention would you believe as does Handycam.

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/strategy/

While the numbers are perhaps credible the 'I believe' content I read with a large grain of salt.

On second thoughts maybe I might just go ahead and pre-order a GH5 :-)