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Old June 3rd, 2017, 10:37 AM   #16
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Re: Panasonic EVA1 announced at CineGear 2017

Dock to dish is all they are showing. My point was regarding projection. The paramount screen is big and I was sitting pretty close. I've seen a number of canon cameras demoed there. Other than some questionable color on the chef/fire shots, the hdr and lowlight shots were simply jaw dropping. Especially considering that the grade was extremely natural (some have said dull), it's easy for the eyes to drift into the middle shadows looking for noise and banding..as there weren't any crushed shadows or "graded colors". Remarkably clean. This is an impressively powerful camera given the price point.

From talking to a rep in the booth (rep=not always 100% accurate). FCPX should be supported at launch, and CRM files should be handled there like any other clip. (My eyebrows lifted at this -- hope to dig further today). Premiere apparently won't get the same treatment.
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Old June 3rd, 2017, 10:40 AM   #17
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Re: Panasonic EVA1 announced at CineGear 2017

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Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post

It's called "Dish to Dock."
:-)..... that's sounds like a completely different movie than I saw, Chris.
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Old June 3rd, 2017, 10:52 AM   #18
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Re: Panasonic EVA1 announced at CineGear 2017

D'oh!!

I got it *backwards!*
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Old June 3rd, 2017, 11:26 AM   #19
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Re: Panasonic EVA1 announced at CineGear 2017

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Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
Actually it is a "native 5.7K" sensor. The 5.7 number does not refer to megapixels.
Thank you for the heads up Chris. Will check out the video.

A 5.7 K RAW output. This is why I was a bit incredulous. I was thinking it must be a 5.7 megapixel reference so yes I got it wrong through disbelief.

This is what I was trying to clarify by posing the question in my post because it seemed pretty amazing hearing of this 5.7K RAW output. In view of the fact that the 35 and the LT, which we have tried out successfully, top out at 4K RAW.

I have also been informed elsewhere that the EVA1 will have a 6G SDI out to support the 5.7K RAW and that the Shogun Inferno will be able to record directly to Apple ProRes or DNxHR via that 6G output. This is good to know.

This is the first time I've heard all of this info so all is much clearer now. As far as I know no other Panasonic camera supports this SMPTE ST 2081-1: 6G-SDI 5.9Gbps standard as yet. Am I correct in this assumption?

Which I guess leads me to my next question. Will the LT and 35 get similar upgrades? Is it possible even?

Chris Young
CYV Productions
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EDIT:
Having now watched the video I am now much better informed. Will look forward to checking the EVA1 out.

Last edited by Christopher Young; June 3rd, 2017 at 12:48 PM.
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Old June 4th, 2017, 09:18 AM   #20
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Re: Panasonic EVA1 announced at CineGear 2017

Based upon what Mitch and Co. presented, I predict the EVA will be a big hit. It looks like a killer set of specs for a very low cost. I find it interesting that their research indicated that enough users either dislike or don't care about an EVF to have not included one, personally, I would miss it. A Zacuto Gratical will add $2k or more to the price of the camera, which is not appealing if you want to shoot it shoulder mounted but that is what the market indicates to them. 2K 240 and 400 Mbps are impressive, especially shooting to the much less expensive Gen II SDXC cards. The dual ISO and Varicam color science sounds amazing on an $8k camera. I think Panasonic is going to sell a ton of the EVA1s, it raises the bar for the price range and class of camera.
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Old June 4th, 2017, 12:32 PM   #21
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Re: Panasonic EVA1 announced at CineGear 2017

I'm not sure how many bars this camera is raising. It seems clearly aimed at the young, entry level, Ursa Mini / Fs5 user offering a relatively low bitrate solution for 4k60p and "faster is better" 240p. Canon's 10bit 4k30p runs at about 410mbps and so to match that quality at 60p the EVA1 would need an 800mbps codec. At this stage given that Panasonic is stating "up to" 400mbps and going out to SD cards, we should probably assume that their 10bit 4k30 will run at close to half that data rate.

This announcement is pure Panasonic, in that they showed another camera that doesn't work yet, and gave us a limited "highlight" driven spec list that doesn't delve too far into the details. Even their demonstration of dual ISO readout (truly this is a novel, effective, approach, similar to how Canon games it's iso's on the C300II) was fudged. We never see a comparison of the two ISO's directly...only a comparison of 800iso gained to 2500 and the 5000iso with negative gain down to 2500. (and of course all examples were shot on Varicam, not the actual camera or sensor in question).

As a former Panasonic user, I've always loved their colors, and I'm sure this will be a great camera. I don't think it's as compelling of a paradigm shift as the C200 is.

Sony, Canon and now Panasonic have now all taken their shots at the "upstarts" BlackMagic Design, AJA, even RED to some extent, targeting the entry level of the cinema market. To me, only Canon seems to have gotten the message, and, again, it seems, has brought a truly innovative feature (internal RAW to a card) to the table. These young users I think are less concerned about broadcast quality codecs, as for the most part...they aren't dreaming of seeing their stuff on ABC NBC...they're looking at Netflix, Amazon, iTunes and Youtube.
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Old June 4th, 2017, 09:08 PM   #22
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Re: Panasonic EVA1 announced at CineGear 2017

Panasonic EVA1 Interview with Mitch Gross.
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Old June 7th, 2017, 03:02 PM   #23
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Re: Panasonic EVA1 announced at CineGear 2017

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Originally Posted by Barry Goyette View Post

This announcement is pure Panasonic, in that they showed another camera that doesn't work yet, and gave us a limited "highlight" driven spec list that doesn't delve too far into the details.

Sony, Canon and now Panasonic have now all taken their shots at the "upstarts" BlackMagic Design, AJA, even RED to some extent, targeting the entry level of the cinema market. To me, only Canon seems to have gotten the message. These young users I think are less concerned about broadcast quality codecs, as for the most part...they aren't dreaming of seeing their stuff on ABC NBC...they're looking at Netflix, Amazon, iTunes and Youtube.
I disagree that Canon has gotten the message at all. Canon has done what it always has done, introduced a new camera that gives an amazing new feature and yet holds back even more to protect it's higher models.

Now I agree Panasonic are guilty of doing exactly what they did with the GH5, announcing early before they've finalised the specifications of the camera. Hence the lack of detail. Still if it is like the GH5, it could be worth the wait.

As for young users, I wouldn't pigeon hole their needs. A codec that sits between 100/150mpbs 4:2:0 and 15bit RAW has value beyond Broadcast needs. Even shooting Weddings and basic Promos, I find 8 bit can be insufficient for some shots and welcome the range a 10 bit 4:2:2 codec can give. Shots that need greater amount of grading and the occasional green screen work are just 2 examples. RAW whilst perhaps addressing these issues, would be overkill for my needs.

I can't say which of the 2 cameras I prefer. Both have strengths and weaknesses. The dual ISO could favour low light over the Canon, plus the downsample from a 5.7k sensor would make for better 4K. Yet the Canon offers slightly better colours, better DR if using RAW internally and far superior Focusing - though Panasonic are somewhat coy with their focus details.

Thankfully I'm in no rush and as a purchase for next year, will have ample time to evaluate both their footage. I've seen several videos from the C200 and it looks impressive. However I also look forward to seeing how the EVA1 performs as well.
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Old June 7th, 2017, 06:07 PM   #24
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Re: Panasonic EVA1 announced at CineGear 2017

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Originally Posted by Steve Burkett View Post
I disagree that Canon has gotten the message at all. Canon has done what it always has done, introduced a new camera that gives an amazing new feature and yet holds back even more to protect it's higher models.

Now I agree Panasonic are guilty of doing exactly what they did with the GH5, announcing early before they've finalised the specifications of the camera. Hence the lack of detail. Still if it is like the GH5, it could be worth the wait.

As for young users, I wouldn't pigeon hole their needs. A codec that sits between 100/150mpbs 4:2:0 and 15bit RAW has value beyond Broadcast needs. Even shooting Weddings and basic Promos, I find 8 bit can be insufficient for some shots and welcome the range a 10 bit 4:2:2 codec can give. Shots that need greater amount of grading and the occasional green screen work are just 2 examples. RAW whilst perhaps addressing these issues, would be overkill for my needs.

I can't say which of the 2 cameras I prefer. Both have strengths and weaknesses. The dual ISO could favour low light over the Canon, plus the downsample from a 5.7k sensor would make for better 4K. Yet the Canon offers slightly better colours, better DR if using RAW internally and far superior Focusing - though Panasonic are somewhat coy with their focus details.

Thankfully I'm in no rush and as a purchase for next year, will have ample time to evaluate both their footage. I've seen several videos from the C200 and it looks impressive. However I also look forward to seeing how the EVA1 performs as well.
If we could combine the best of these two cameras, we would truly have the best sub $10k camera ever made. Both have some super cool, amazing features and both seem to leave us wanting on several fronts at the same time.

I agree with you, Canon is doing what they always do, holding back to protect the next model up in the line, it can be frustrating, but Canon is probably the most conservative of all of the major camera manufacturers, that is mid-90s typical large Japanese marketing strategy. Sony used to do it even worse but they seem to have somewhat backed off on it in the past few years. I wish that they would simultaneously introduced the C300 MKIII, at $15k or $16k. It would have had or undoubtedly will have Cinema RAW Light, the same touchscreen and general layout and but will also have a raft of clever things (like dual CFast 2.0 Slots, 24-bit audio, perhaps the shoulder mounted form factor more like the C700, a superior EVF, 10-bit or 12-bit XF-AVC, etc.) that the C200 doesn't to justify double the cost or more.

As far as EVA1, I am pretty excited by what could be. The specs sound much more impressive than the C200 as far as codecs, frame rates, bit depth, dual ISO, Varicam colors but I am sad that they seem to be using EF lenses with what looks to be essentially a dummy mount with only iris control possible. If they at least supported the IS on Canon IS lenses, that would have been smart for poaching Canon and Sony owners, which is clearly the intent of the camera. Perhaps I don't understand if IS needs to be somehow supported by the camera or if the lens mount is supplying power, does the IS just turn on and work? The EIS? Hmm...I remain skeptical. If it has zero effect on image degradation, all is good but a lot of posters seems unconvinced. I used to like OIS on my HPX170 but I think EIS is different. As far as AF implementation, we are all holding our breath to see what The Mitch and Co. come up with. If the audio controls are all buried in the menus, that will be sad for much of the intended audience.

This competition is clearly of benefit to us all, can't wait to see what Sony comes up with to combat these two cameras.
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Old June 13th, 2017, 03:07 AM   #25
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Re: Panasonic EVA1 announced at CineGear 2017

More to digest on the EVA1.

"EVA" the beautiful girl. Sounds like...

The HD overcrank (slo-mo) is going be centre cropped >02.17
Internally it's going to be 8-bit only in 50/60p like the GH5 >02.35
You will need an additional external third party module for external RAW recording to an Atomos etc?? >03.10
The RAW 4K 50/60p output is going to be a 4096 crop of the 5.7K sensor, (my comment: typically it's not not possible to scale raw) >03.15
Specifications. Sounds like they are pretty locked bar firmware >06.34
Motor driven switchable IR filter >07.41

The comment about a possible PL mount has already been quashed.


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Old June 14th, 2017, 05:28 AM   #26
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Re: Panasonic EVA1 announced at CineGear 2017

Latest news on "EVA" :))


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Old June 14th, 2017, 10:01 AM   #27
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Re: Panasonic EVA1 announced at CineGear 2017

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Latest news on "EVA" :))

The Panasonic AU-EVA1 awaits you - YouTube

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This is amazingly clever and cute. Nicely done.
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Old June 18th, 2017, 12:50 AM   #28
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Re: Panasonic EVA1 announced at CineGear 2017

For what it's worth. I can't testify to the veracity of any of the following statements but they did come from a pretty well informed industry source in the UK.

Has anyone heard anything similar in nature to these latest AVA whispers?

"So yesterday I visited Takahiro Mitsui, a chief engineer for cinema camera development at Panasonic, at CVPs VariCam lineup event in London. They featured a non-working model of the EVA1 (this doesn't mean it's a part of the VariCam family, it's not. It's completely new). Taka was able to confirm a few things, and not able to say with certainty others.

1. The camera will NOT feature IBIS as previously speculated. It will use EIS done in image processing. With the 5.7k resolution, the image will have a slight crop, with virtually no loss in fidelity.

2. The camera will feature some crop mode options. None specifically stated, although Taka said that there may be a MFT size crop option with 4k resolution (similar to Ex. Tele Conv. function in GH cameras).

3. Taka could not comment on if the camera will have 4k60p 10bit 422 internal recording.

4. One of the base ISOs is confirmed 800.

5. Taka could not comment on the dual SD functionality and whether they'd be able to record simultaneously or proxy footage.

6. The side handle on the camera will NOT have a rosette mount, rather it will be a proprietary one-touch lockable/rotatable mounting system. They are already working with third party manufacturers for mounting solutions (perhaps grip extenders for shoulder rigging).

7. The LCD is NOT the same as the one in the GH5, it is new. No specs to speak of yet besides that it will be a touchscreen.

8. They like the red lines, and so do I :)

9. Taka had a raw sample of the new 5.7k sensor available to look at. Pictures below.

10. The camera currently doesn't have an auto-focusing system, Taka said they are trying to work something out.

Actually holding the camera felt very nice. It's super light and the ergonomic side handle is very comfortable. It has eight inch mounting points on the top. I forgot to check the bottom, woops. Of course big lenses and other rigging would beef up the size and weight, but that's up to the user.

Overall it seems quite early for Taka to be commenting on certain aspects of the camera, as they are still fine-tuning, tweaking and finalizing hardware, firmware and software. He's also very humble and I had a good chat with him."

Just curious as ever:)

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Old June 18th, 2017, 06:48 PM   #29
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Re: Panasonic EVA1 announced at CineGear 2017

Im really wondering why Panasonic didnt choose the JVC type LS300 MFT mount with S35 sensor. The EVA-1 will have a deep set sensor with a deep mount flange back distance.

Wouldn't it have been better to have the MFT shallow flange back mount and pushed back Canon lenses with simple adapters? This could have opened the door to more lens options without hurting the Canon lens options. It could have allowed Canon, Nikon and MFT glass at least in manual operation.

I dont get this. Surly Panasonic has inspected JVC's implamentation?
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Old June 18th, 2017, 10:39 PM   #30
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Re: Panasonic EVA1 announced at CineGear 2017

+1 agree Mr. C.

An M4/3 mount with a S35 sensor and a world of lenses and adapters would have become available. Do any of these manufactures really talk to people working at the coal face? Big mistake going with a mount that let's face it that was designed for a legacy mirror box DSLR still camera range.

Sorry to say but the EF mount is one of the least adaptable mounts out there as regards fitting other lenses that require shorter flange back distances. Arri Std, B and PL are 52mm, B4 is 48mm, Nikon F is 46.5mm and EF is 44mm. Anything else shorter than 44mm is almost impossible to use and that is a big world of lenses to miss out on.

Can't follow Pana's reasoning here. As you say it would have been a much more flexible solution to follow JVC;s lead.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney
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