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Old January 21st, 2018, 06:37 AM   #46
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Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced

So, yeah.....judging from the raw sensor data performance verses processed image, it does seem to tell the true story. I wouldn't call the GH5-S a "low light beast" at all. It's probably more acurate to call it a "noise reduction beast"!!

Since we dont have access to the GH5-S' raw sensor data in video, we only then care about it's processed video output. Let's be honest, the in-camera processing is pretty damn amazing. We could call it "cheating" but who really cares? The image is clean and retains fairly decent 4k detail even at 6400 ISO.

I got overly excited on day 1 and I pre ordered mine instantly. I never intended it to replace my GH5 or my A7S-II but I thought it would be a great color companion to my GH5. However, after thinking about it for a week, I decided to cancel it. I figured I would wait for NAB in 2 months and possibly go for the A7S-III instead.

We all know the A7S-III will certainly have 10bit video and no 29minute time limit. (Right!...hopefully!!)

I have a funny feeling that the next A7S is going to be insane.

I really do commend Panasonic these days. They are being incredibly agressive on not holding back on camera features. Micro 4/3 has become "The Little Engine That Could" of the camera industry. Panasonic tries WAY harder than Sony and Canon on stacking every feature possible into their cameras. This FORCES Sony to compete in ways that are uncomfortable for them to do. (10bit in cheap cameras) I love this!!

CT
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Old January 21st, 2018, 09:56 AM   #47
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Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced

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Originally Posted by Steve Burkett View Post
In the end it was more of a talk than a chance to play. There were a few GH5s to handle, but shared amongst a large group of attendees. The talk was quite basic, more catering to the low knowledge of video many there had on the subject. However the speakers enthusiasm for Micro 4/3s and the GH5s was infectious and the image displayed on a fancy 4K screen impressive despite footage some being in HD. The slowmo to 200fps looked great, that on 240fps rubbish and not useable in my opinion.

As for DR, I'd wager there is little improvement and what there is can be found at higher ISO, where the GH5 might lose out a bit. Low light looked good, but at my distance from the screen, hard to pixel peep.

I did film a bit with 1 camera, but just a shot of the lecture area with guests milling about. Nothing that is conclusive about real world use of the camera. Still as I planned to buy another GH5 anyway, I've decided to take the plunge and order the GH5s. Once I have a chance to really play with it, I think I'd be able to provide more thoughts on how it measures up. I need a B camera to replace my G80, something that works mostly on a tripod, handles low light so I can get a good dof on wide angle and which runs continuously, occasionally unattended. The GH5s seems therefore ideal.

Edit: Apparently I'm due to get it next Tuesday. Just in time for 2 Weddings I have Thursday and Saturday.
Thanks, Steve!
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Old January 21st, 2018, 10:09 AM   #48
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Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced

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I really do commend Panasonic these days. They are being incredibly agressive on not holding back on camera features. Micro 4/3 has become "The Little Engine That Could" of the camera industry. Panasonic tries WAY harder than Sony and Canon on stacking every feature possible into their cameras. This FORCES Sony to compete in ways that are uncomfortable for them to do. (10bit in cheap cameras) I love this!!

CT
Agreed. Over the years, I have gone back and forth between Sony and Panasonic cameras, with Sony winning out most of the time. One big exception was the full sized Panasonic DVC200, which I used for over 10 years, the longest that I have ever owned a camera. It was built like a tank, and I never even serviced it. It just kept going and going like the Energizer Bunny. Right now, I am all in on Panasonic, and I own a DVX200 and a GH5. GH5S or DVX200B could well be next, though the EVA1 is very tempting if budget allows.
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Old January 21st, 2018, 11:13 PM   #49
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Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced

Oh yeah,...the DVX200 replacement! Now I have to believe this GH5-S sensor (Starvis IMX294?) is going to be inside this DVX200-II/B. It seems to me that the GH5-S motherboard already 98% of everything they need for R&D on this camera.

I just hope they dump that fake carbon fiber and bright red rear panel. Uggg....Panny, PLEASE make it all black. If you want to do the EVA-1 red line trim, that's OK but dont go crazy again with the spray paint!

I think a DVX200 with THIS sensor and GH5 CODECs is going to be a very nice ENG camera! (Assuming they fix their horrible auto focus! programming)
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Old January 22nd, 2018, 09:54 PM   #50
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Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced

I don't use auto focus much, but I know that it is better on my GH5 than it was on the GH4 that I had previously. From what I have read, and have seen in the videos, it is improved a little bit more on the GH5S. I haven't done a lot of gimbal work, but it is obviously important to have good auto focus for that purpose.

DVX200-II/B is gonna be great if it comes to pass. Personally, the fake carbon fiber and red color don't bother me too much - though the camera does FEEL kind of plasticky, which I don't like. Still, If it performs like it should with the new sensor/codec, I will live with those quirks.
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Old January 30th, 2018, 01:17 PM   #51
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Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced

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Originally Posted by Cliff Totten View Post
I really do commend Panasonic these days. They are being incredibly agressive on not holding back on camera features. Micro 4/3 has become "The Little Engine That Could" of the camera industry. Panasonic tries WAY harder than Sony and Canon on stacking every feature possible into their cameras. This FORCES Sony to compete in ways that are uncomfortable for them to do. (10bit in cheap cameras) I love this!!
Sony's main focus is now pushing out volumes of cheap product, not innovation. Panasonic is the way to go right now for the bleeding edge in terms of innovation.
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I wait for the day cost-efficient global shutter 60fps capable CMOS sensors emerge for use on major manufacturers' cameras. (Sony, Canon, etc.) Rolling Shutters are a plague.
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Old January 31st, 2018, 06:56 AM   #52
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Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced

Well? The GH5 wouldnt be what it is today without that beautiful Sony IMX272 sensor and Sony 6k, 5k full pixel read out to 4k scaling engine. ;-)

I think that "Sony Semiconductor" company is THE super star tech driver of the imaging industry. They are incredibly innovative and the #1 industry driver in imaging technology....and its all for sale (at some point) to everybody.

Now Sony' "camera" company? They survive completely off its big brother. But, their marketing decisions are sometimes very slow to react to changes and they try too hard to protect themselves.

I see the GH5 and GH5-S as being cameras that Sony Semiconductor sold the farm too. They actually allowed Sony Exmor sensors and pattented readout tech in 10bit to high a bitrate codec in a "cheap", incredable, aggressively marketed camera. The GH5, Gh9 and GH5-S are Sony brains combined with Panasonic's heart! Lol

Sony Imagining company now needs to do some soul searching here. They need to re evaluate their strategy with 10bit moving forward and start adding it to more and more lower products down the road. They want to sell HLG iand HDR n cameras and TV's...but refuse to give us the 10bit depth that log and HDR requires! They are stubburn with their XAVC bitrates and dont budge an inch on the marketing side.

I think that Sony Semiconductor's willingness to sell to almost ANY company is putting pressure on Sony Imaging to do things they dont want to do down tbe road....like:

10bit in cheap Sony cameras.
Stop using rolling shutter as a marketing divider.
Take heat seriously.
Stop using 29minute brick wall as a marketing cripple.
Higher bitrates in cheaper cameras.

Just wait until Sony Semiconductor sells their Phase Detection AF to Panasonic for the GH6! That would be a stab in the heart of Sony Imaging. So, yeah....Sony makes great cameras but they need to start thinking about breaking away from their strict marketing decisions of the past and learn to have more of Panasonic's heart.

This A7S-III is going to be a huge indicator for all of us. If all Sony does is give us a new sensor with an 8bit CODEC and 8bit HDMI? Uggg.....that would be embarassing. And Panasonic will be laughing all the way!.

I think even Sony Semiconductor would be shaking their heads at Sony Imaging saying "what are you guys doing over there?"

CT
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Old January 31st, 2018, 10:22 PM   #53
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Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced

I really think the A7S-III will still have a micro HDMI, 8-bit, and same old XAVC-S recording.
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Old February 1st, 2018, 01:12 PM   #54
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Re: New Panasonic GH5S introduced

Well?...this A7S-III will have a two year retail shelf life. Do they really want to try and push that camera in 8bit for the next two years?

They want to push HLG and HDR TVs for the future. Do they want the A7S-III to be an HLG or HDR camera...that is stuck with a bit depth that is technically NOT the standard for HDR or HLG?

Even YouTube now has 10bit encoding for HDR content.

I suspect the A7R-III will not have 10bit internal recording but WILL have 10bit HDMI output.

We will see in 5 weeks!
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Old February 1st, 2018, 02:12 PM   #55
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10bit: too much fuss

I have shot and rendered 4K HLG video in 8bit (oh, the horror!) - you can do that with the FS5. The HDR HLG version of the video compared to the SDR version is astonishingly better - the increased dynamic range - sunlit areas sparkling - makes the video come to life. Anyone who sees the HDR videos is amazed at the difference (you can even see the advantage on a Samsung S8). And the REC2020 color (in 8bit) seen in HDR looks good, better than many of Sony's color palettes from their PP's.

I do not think almost anyone would notice the difference if the video were shot in 10bit. Or almost any video, HDR or not. Ditto for 422 versus 420.

Yes, I get that 10bit can produce banding *if* the video is heavily graded. But, it turns out that banding in 8bit is mostly caused by high compression. When 8bit is shot in, say, ProRes HQ the banding in 8bit is next to invisible. But I digress.

I think the most important advantage of HDR is the expanded dynamic range for highlights. Next is the expanded color gamut, but that is far less important than the DR gain. And finally, 10bit, if at all.

Am I missing something? And yes, I have shot HDR video from 12bit RAW; not worth the effort.
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