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Old April 29th, 2006, 09:56 AM   #16
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I actually don't have any support for my statement, but I have heard how Sony rushed the FX1 for all the new HD technology.
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Old April 29th, 2006, 01:16 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ashton
I actually don't have any support for my statement, but I have heard how Sony rushed the FX1 for all the new HD technology.
Yes, maybe, but even *if* it was 'rushed' (hey every new product on any market is almost always rushed to market) that doesn't have any correlation at all with whether or not it was a big succes or not.

I agree with Boyd, the FX1 was ground-breaking and a tremendous success. It brought capabilities to market that previously were the sole province of really quite expensive pro gear. The FX1 i think will go down as one of the all-time great camcorders, and as far as i know, was a big sales success as well as a technical marvel.
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Old May 4th, 2006, 08:21 AM   #18
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I also think that it [the FX1] will be around for a long time, despite the new technology. The advent of new cameras does not mean that the FX1 will stop working :) , the VX Series endured for a long time (just sometimes you still see people using them).

*One mans Old technology is annother mans New technology*


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Old May 4th, 2006, 09:00 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ashton
the FX1 wasn't really a big success.
Unless you have sales figures to suggest otherwise, I'd call it one of the most successful camcorder products ever in terms of "bang for the buck." A year and a half after it started shipping there still isn't anything to compete with it at a similar price, and no indication that any other camera manufacturer intends to try to rival it. If Sony truly has stopped making them it will be interesting to see what their next move is.
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Old May 4th, 2006, 11:09 AM   #20
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John Ashton,

You are way off here. First, it wasn't rushed, it came out 14 months after a public announcement that Sony was onboard for HDV in September 2003:

www.hdv-info.net

More than enough time to get it right. In fact, the "footprint" for how it's recorded to tape is superior to DV.

Also, how can you say the FX1 was a failure? It indeed was not, and did very well. The Z1 may have done more, but there are over 200,000 HDV cameras on the market and of that, 65,000 are Sony. (Source: www.vasst.com -- new book on HDV by Douglas Spotted Eagle, Mark Dileo and myself.)

So, before you start putting up false information, get the facts straight and also read our policy:

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Old May 4th, 2006, 11:13 AM   #21
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ps-The HC1 isn't listed on the www.sonystyle.com site.

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Old May 4th, 2006, 01:44 PM   #22
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I think it's safe to say that the FX1 was in fact a tremendous success. It reminds me of the VX100 and the impact that camcorder made on the industry. It's certainly popular around here anyway!
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Old May 4th, 2006, 10:09 PM   #23
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ashton
the FX1 wasn't really a big success.
Umm....the FX1 is simply the second biggest success in the history of mid-level priced camcorders, and the biggest success in it's market timeframe. Unlike your comment, I *do* have numbers to back up my statement. No camcorder in the 3K price range has ever been so successful other than the DVX100, and even then, the differences aren't that great. (I don't have confirmable numbers on DVX sales)

Overall, Sony announced that they've sold just over 150,000 HDV camcorders in the market compared to a third that of Canon and JVC combined. The Z1 and A1 were announced at NAB as being in the 60k+ units sold range (US). The rest would be FX1's and HC1's. Remember tho, Sony has had a full year jump on both competitors.
Additionally Craig Yanagi (marketing dir) has stated publically that JVC's HDV camcorders now outsell their SD camcorders. In other words, HDV is selling, and selling well.
Additionally, according to the US sales manager of consumer HDV, he's unaware the FX1 has been discontinued, and they still are receiving camcorders and taking allocations for more units in the US. A specific *market* might discontinue the camcorder, but that certainly doesn't mean Sony as a whole has discontinued them. But to say it was a failure is quite absurd.
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Old May 4th, 2006, 10:23 PM   #24
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Thanks, Spot, for the numbers. And for clarifying that it's 65,000 pro HDV Sony cameras sold so far.

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Old May 5th, 2006, 12:37 AM   #25
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I have been watching this thread closely (as I own a FX1E).

For what it is worth - here is my two cents worth:

I do know that Sony has had to go through a huge 'green' (you know - 'environmentally friendly') compliance excercise (for the South African market anyway - I do not know about the rest of the world) and this has resulted in the manufacture of a number of products being delayed.

This information was given to me by Sony (broadcast) here in South Africa about a month and a half ago because I could not understand why I could not get a hold of certain Sony accessories and would have to wait at least eight weeks for the stock to arrive.

Being that kind of person I just had to find out for myself from alternate sources so I ended up calling Sony UK, Sony Hong Kong, Sony Holland (the warehouse), and Sony Japan (the factory), etc. etc. and was given pretty much the same story.

I was looking for Sony (professional and broadcast) mics at the time but I was told that this compliance 'move' was affecting stock availability of all sorts of products so - putting two and two together - I have a sneaky suspicion that this is the reason that a number of Sony products (possibly including the FX1) have been out of stock at certain retailers.

In a general discussion with a representative from one of the two big Sony (broadcast) distributors here in South Africa the big 'green' compliance 'move' was confirmed and he was not aware of any new replacement for the FX1 or the Z1 (and I do know that these are the type of guys that 'have the inside track' on things if you know what I mean).

So - this is another take on things that I have not seen mentioned in this thread (or any of the other similar threads that have been started by the same members on various other message boards).

Hopefully - this is the case.

Regards,

Dale.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 11:50 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ashton
the FX1 wasn't really a big success.

Neither were you, but I like you anyway.
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Old May 7th, 2006, 02:30 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Heath McKnight
ps-The HC1 isn't listed on the www.sonystyle.com site.

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Old May 7th, 2006, 08:17 AM   #28
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Jerome,

Absolutely. It looks like the HC3 replacement as a consumer camera makes it more consumer and less pro, like the HC1. Likely because the pricepoint between the HC1 and A1 was so tiny. A lot of people (likely pros hoping for an FX1-style bargain) were buying the A1, I'm guessing, not enough true consumers were buying the HC1. That's a guess, but an educated one.

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Old May 7th, 2006, 02:56 PM   #29
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In my city they don't even sell HC1's off the floor, you have to order them in. The problem over here (and in other PAL countries) is that they cost so much extra that nobody will even stock a HC3, and in this country even the $799 Sanyo is not dues to be released for months. The A1 is still an enormous price over the HC1 here, not like the massive discounting in the States and Japan. Buying the pal AI or pal HCI at internationally discounted pricing is like $1K to $1.5K price difference from globalmedia.

I wonder who bought all those HC1, that was so immensely successful, and how much more successful it could have been in Pal countries if they had got their act together? I think, one reason, they sell more in the US and Japan, then in many PAL countries, si that they have a higher standard of living then PAL countries but yet, they charge people in the PAL countries a lot more.

All this offering of ten or more consumer models nonsense by companies must drastically bite into profit as it lowers productions runs drastically. The sales of some of these consumer cameras and the prices are laughable. I prefer to see a camera fro a price bracket (3 good models before you hit prosumer).

Why don't they fire people over all this sort of stuff.

Sorry for the irritation, but I hate seeing that stuff.

There is supposed to be other HD models coming out, I confident that the HC1 and AI will eventually be replaced with a capable camera. The HC3 sends the wrong signal (if you look at the threads on it and the new "superior" sensor design you can see why. It is like the HI8 of the HDV world compared to HI8ex, a good compromise format for the cheapest camera at $500, but missing that bit extra. If the HC1 replacement was $1K with a true (not summed line/single field) 24/25/30fps, 25mb/s+ progressive mode (even if it was only 1440*540) and the HC3 was $500, we would have a better balance.


Thanks

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Old May 7th, 2006, 03:49 PM   #30
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Wayne Morellini,

The standards of living in a lot of Pal countries is about the same as the United States because in Portugal for example you see people with expansive computes, big flat screen TVs, satellite channels and kids buying lots of video games that cost about 70 to 90 US each. I sometimes get shock when I see the things that people have but the strong Euro is definitely part of the reason. But youíre right about one thing, the prices are too high when trying to but pal electronics such as video games and camcorders but you still see lots of people walking around with expansive camcorders and no its not just the tourists but the residents themselves.

This has also been bothering me ever since I was a kid because besides America having bigger markets which can allow the prices to be cheaper, itís still no excuse for companies keeping the prices high. A reason could be because the stores want to keep the prices high as well. Hopefully this all change because I heard the PS3 games from the US will also work in PAL/SECAM countries and vise versa. This should keep the prices the same at least for video games.

I also agree that the HC1 and the A1 will receive true replacements later this year. It seems to me that a lot of camcorder companies are now trying to copy Apple by keeping any new technologies secret until the products are ready to ship.
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