XBOX 360 HD-DVD player add-on

[Andrew Kimery]

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira

Its no wonder Nintendo is putting a lot of emphases on the controller because they realize that it’s the only thing revolutionary about the Wii. This type of mentality is going to finally hurt their GameBoy DS because the Sony PSP is already catching up to the DS sales and Sony have said they will release a hard drive and a flash drive version of the PSP so that you’ll have enough room to fit a lot of the original PlayStation games that you can buy from the PS3’s web service. The hard drive PSP will also strongly compete against the Ipod. This is why Apple has no choice but to make a 4” or greater version with WiFi capabilities by February of 2007.

I'd argue that the only thing revolutionary of any of the next gen systems is the Wii's UI. The PS3 and 360 are basically upgraded versions of the previous console (not that there's necessarily wrong with that). If the Wii's UI has legs and can out live the "novelty phase" then I see it setting a new standard in video game UI. Sony thinks enough of it that they tacked on some limited motion sensing control onto the PS3. It was definitely a gamble by Nintendo to stick w/SD. But it also puts them in a much better position financially as they are the only one of the three that will make profit from hardware sales right off the bat. There is also the question of how import HD is. Inferior quality hasn't hurt MP3 sales, iTunes video sales, or the popularity of buying old school games on Xbox Live (and how many times have we heard the story about people playing SD-DVDs on their brand new HDTV and going, "Wow, these look much better in HD."). Also, something like half the gamers on line are women playing things like card games on Yahoo. Not a video game console's traditional market, but it very well could be a new market w/the addition of simple, downloadable games that we are seeing. And I think the Wii's price and UI definitely give it and advantage when going after a new market segment.

I think a lot of the same type of people who doom and gloom Nintendo also doom and gloom Apple. Even though Nintendo and Apple are both healthy, profitable companies they get dumped on for achieving success via different methods than their industry peers.

In regards to portable gaming, I'm not sure where you are getting your sales numbers but the DS is still out selling the PSP by a good margin. For Sept 06 the DS sold 400k units in the US and the PSP sold 150k.


-A

[Paulo Teixeira]

At the moment they’ll probably be a lot of praise for the Wii mote but if you think about it, the Dreamcast’s VMU had just as much praise but once the PS2 came out that praise started fading away.

I earnestly can’t see this as a good thing for the Wii being in SD only when the original XBOX was already HD. I mean why are we buying HD camcorders and TVs anyway if HD isn’t all that. Nintendo needs to realize that its almost 2007.

On some months the PSP’s numbers got close to the DS but once the Lite version came out, it sold like crazy but I wonder if Nintendo can keep up that sales momentum once a hard drive PSP comes out because I predict a hard drive version will fly off the selves.

Now here is a rumor that I hope is true, a portable GameCube that fits in you pocket. It’s been posted on IGN.com but about minutes to hours later it been pulled off. If it’s not then Nintendo better make it true because I see a lot of potential in a product like this just as long as the battery life is decent because that’s what killed the Sega Genessis Nomad.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira

The HD-DVD add-on does not make the XBOX360 even with the PS3 because it’s strictly for watching movies not games so as I said in 2 years the games will look so much better on the PS3 because of that.

The HD-DVD add-on can most certainly be used for game content. However, Microsoft is not allowing game content on HD-DVD right away because they want to make sure the add-on will at least sell. In other words, they're trying to avoid a SegaCD fiasco where developers jumped on board only to find a dead-end product and then you have several angry developers and potential legal disputes.

So, if HD-DVD add-ons prove popular and Microsoft can make it work, we will see game content on HD-DVD. Possibly by this time next year.

So, is that too little, too late for the XBOX360? I'm kinda thinking it is... Microsoft should have held off 6 months on the 360 release and put in an HD-DVD drive in the standard unit.

[Andrew Kimery]

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira

At the moment they’ll probably be a lot of praise for the Wii mote but if you think about it, the Dreamcast’s VMU had just as much praise but once the PS2 came out that praise started fading away.

I think Sony's sixaxis control is more along the lines of the DC's VMU (sounds cool, but is actually just gimmicky) than the Wii's remote & nunchuck. Again, only time will tell if the Wii has legs or gets cast off as a novelty, but if it does get cast off I'll put it in the same category as the Newton (too big a step too soon for the market). I was very skeptical of the Wii until I had a chance to sit down (stand up actually) and play it for a while. The few games I've played so far feel more immersive using the Wii's UI than using a normal control. Especially the Wii Sports games like tennis and golf. Instead of pressing buttons to control my swing meter in Tiger Woods Golf or perform a forehand smash in Virtua Tennis I'm swinging a virtual golf club or tennis racquet in Wii Sports. I don't think the Wii is going to blow Sony or MS out of the water, but I think the Wii could be the beginning of the end for traditional UI's in video game consoles.

I earnestly can’t see this as a good thing for the Wii being in SD only when the original XBOX was already HD. I mean why are we buying HD camcorders and TVs anyway if HD isn’t all that. Nintendo needs to realize that its almost 2007.

I can't say the Wii sticking w/SD is a good thing either, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing. It could just be a neutral thing. Even though HD is finally starting to gain some main stream traction, people are still going to be watching SD TV programing and SD DVDs on their SD, and HD, TVs for years.

It's a very interesting time in many aspects of the entertainment industry and I'm glad to see companies taking chances now and again.


-A

[Paulo Teixeira]

Jeff Kilgroe,
You must have some new information that I haven’t read yet because Microsoft made it clear that the HD-DVD add-on will never be used for games. Unless Bill Gates is lying on purpose knowing that information like that can kill future XBOX sales which would be a big advantage to the PS3 and your right about such a unit having the same fate as the Sega CD because that would indeed be devastating for Microsoft. Another good example is Sega’s 32X. I’m still a fan of Sega Games but releasing an add-on for the Genesis to prepare people for the Saturn was probably Sega biggest mistake they ever did.


Andrew Kimery,
Sony’s controller is nowhere near getting the same praise as Sega’s VMU and Nintendo’s Wii Mote but I probably didn’t word it the way I wanted to. I should have said “the interest in the Dreamcast started fading away” but come to think about it, the PSP compatibility with the PS3 might have similar features to the VMU since you can already use the PSP as a rear view mirror for car games, it shouldn’t be to hard to make a PS3 football game that allowed you to make your plays on your PSP. The PSP can also play a lot of the movies on the PS3’s hard drive but the only problem about that feature is that it’s currently for non copy protected movies.

Here’s an interesting development, people are already hacking the HD-DVD add-on and using it on their computers and so far it’s only working on Windows PCs. There are already instructions on the net but for obvious reasons; I will not link to it.

As for PS3 news, the hard drive is replaceable with standard computer hard drives and some PS1 and PS2 games are having playback issues for example some of the sound in Tekken 5 is missing and Sony will release a firmware update soon.

Nintendo Chooses Sonic Solutions for Future DVD enabled Wii.
http://www.4rfv.co.uk/industrynews.asp?ID=56816

[Sharyn Ferrick]

You really need to be careful with high tech product future speak ;-)
Here is the link
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=18977
What they have said is they have NO PLANS.

At the point there is a version of Xbox 360 or a follow on with a HD DVD drive standard, then the PLANS might change.

Re running the Xbox 360 hd dvd drive on a PC there is nothing illegal about it, and Microsoft has said they have done nothing to prevent it being done, but they have not added the support and it is expected if it comes to come from third parties. I think Microsoft is trying to leave space for other developers to provide the solution and at the same time leave some space for HP for instance with their drive. People just need to check out the avs forums and there is quite a bit of discussion.

At this point, the current software will not allow you to display on your pc in full HD resolution, It is highly likely that you will be mandated to get a HDCP compliant video card.

Personally I think it is only a matter of time, and if Vista was not being launched at the same time, and all the work on codecs in the HD DVD group and the online hd service, we might have seen more. IMO the HD DVD product came along when the Vista code for beta had been too far along.

Sharyn

[Paulo Teixeira]

Here is a very good review of the XBOX360 HD-DVD add-on from IGN
http://gear.ign.com/articles/746/746074p1.html

[Paulo Teixeira]

Originally Posted by Dave Ferdinand

Also, have you taken a look at Gears of War? It looks amazing and I doubt the PS3 games will look much better.

Resistance: Fall of Man looks very close to the visuals of Gears of War but the one game the will truly show off the graphic capabilities of the XBOX360 is Halo 3 and it will be up against the PS3’s Killzone 2. The previous version was made to tackle Halo but it just couldn’t compete and this time around Sony is working overtime with this game. It will be very interesting to see how Halo 3 and Killzone 2 are going to look because both will push the boundaries of the XBOX360 and the PS3. As for the Wii, the one game to look out for is Metroid Prime 3 Corruption because the previous versions pushed the Game Cube to its limits.

As I already mentioned I’d much rather get Virtua Fighter 5 because Sega is making sure that it’ll be the most visually impressive fighting game on any system and sadly Namco won’t give to much details about its upcoming Tekken 6.

[Sharyn Ferrick]

the point that the gear review missed is that most displays do not support 1080p but 1080i and over component the hd dvd addon does support 1080i. Where the vga connection comes into value is upscaling standard dvd's, which can be done over the vga connection.

It looks like the ps3 has its own set of issues over hdmi, for instance if your tv does not support 720 it will not upscale to 1080,

IMHO HDMI is still a bit early, the 1.3 chips have just started shipping so waiting for 1.3 or beyond could make sense.

The article is wrong when it states that people have been removing the drive etc. The people playing with the drive have used USB, and the drive is recognized by WINXP, combinations of hd playback software have been tried with mixed success, Basically the add on card in the drive adds the acss support and I believe that when the software is released IF you have a HDCP compliant graphics card it will be able to work. I think that analog or vga output will probably not work in a pc setup.

There is a lot of activity on the AVS forums re all this

If you look at the 40 dollar coupons at Circuit City, and the included KK Hd DVD the package is pretty inexpensive.

Sharyn

[Paulo Teixeira]

Originally Posted by Sharyn Ferrick

IMHO HDMI is still a bit early, the 1.3 chips have just started shipping so waiting for 1.3 or beyond could make sense.

What do you mean by that? The PS3 does have version 1.3

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira

Jeff Kilgroe,
You must have some new information that I haven’t read yet because Microsoft made it clear that the HD-DVD add-on will never be used for games. Unless Bill Gates is lying on purpose knowing that information like that can kill future XBOX sales which would be a big advantage to the PS3 and your right about such a unit having the same fate as the Sega CD because that would indeed be devastating for Microsoft. Another good example is Sega’s 32X. I’m still a fan of Sega Games but releasing an add-on for the Genesis to prepare people for the Saturn was probably Sega biggest mistake they ever did.

Well, Sharyn posted a good link... So far Microsoft is just not approving games on HD-DVD media until they know the HD-DVD unit is going to be a viable product. But they have no definite future plans and I'm not sure where you got the info that the HD-DVD add-on will be for movies only. That's not the intention here, well it is for only a short time until they sell 100K units or so. Oh, and the developer docs have all the updated info on producing games using HD-DVD and various forms of data / video storage and integration... Or so I'm told. ;)

[Heath McKnight]

Though unscientific, most people in line at Wal-Mart last night (I was there hanging with my friend who bought a PS3) said they were probably going to sell their Xbox 360. Asked why, they said they like Playstation better. I have both an Xbox and PS2 and enjoy both equally, but like HD DVD and Blu-Ray, I'm sitting this one out until the dust settles.

One thing I don't like is that I can buy both for basically the same amount of money, but I'll forever have an additional add-on HD DVD player with the Xbox 360, but built-in Blu-Ray with the PS3, though the unit is heavy.

heath

[Paulo Teixeira]

The thing is, I wanted the XBOX360 more than the PS3 because I loved my XBOX more than my PS2 but when I found out that Sony is going to use Blu-Ray, I was starting to change my mind because I knew for a fact that if the Dreamcast had a built in DVD player at that time, the PS2 would have struggled severely since the Dreamcast did have a lot of momentum and Nintendo also missed their chance because of a lack of DVD drive as well. If Microsoft was smart, they would have obviously delayed the XBOX 360 to include the HD-DVD drive and I guarantee you that Microsoft would have had a very good chance of defeating Sony if they did that.

As for the HD-DVD add-on, if Microsoft does end up using it for games within 2 years from now it would only prove that the XBOX360 as is wasn’t a match for the PS3 just like Sony knew that if the PS3 didn’t have a Blu-Ray drive, not only would Blu-Ray have failed but the XBOX360 would be in a very good position to destroy the PS3.

Now it can be argued that the extra space isn’t necessary and yes Gears of War is extremely impressive but like I said, there were a lot of people saying that the GameCube’s 1.5 gig discs offered plenty of space and that proved to be wrong.
Here’s a quote from a Best Buy magazine written by a GamePro editor concerning Blu-Ray being used for games.
“The result should be games with more high resolution textures, longer HD cut-scenes, and more extended use of surround sound than the competition”

I’ve noticed that most people in the Sony Stlye Store 2 days ago and people at a Best Buy store yesterday didn’t know that Sony’s sixaxis controller has motion sensing technology and surprisingly the one thing that I see as impressive about Sony’s controller is that you can be playing a demo of Moto GP on one hand and doing something else with the other hand. That’s what one guy did while talking on the cell. That makes game players more lazy because now you can use your other hand to eat snacks while your playing video games.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

Though unscientific, most people in line at Wal-Mart last night (I was there hanging with my friend who bought a PS3) said they were probably going to sell their Xbox 360. Asked why, they said they like Playstation better. I have both an Xbox and PS2 and enjoy both equally, but like HD DVD and Blu-Ray, I'm sitting this one out until the dust settles.

It may be unscientific, but I think that's fairly typical. Many people only own one game system and a lot prefer Playstation due to the backward compatibility and, well, they like Sony products because they do. Personally, I've never been a big fan of the Playstation controller, my hands get sore if I play to much... But I don't really prefer any game system over another. I'll probably buy a PS3 at some point, but that's nowhere near the top of things on my Chirstmas list. As for my XBOX360 I'll keep it. In some ways I kinda prefer my xbox and my GameCube over the Playstation line and the 360 as they tend to have more exclusive games. For the most part, PS3 vs. XBOX 360 are going to offer the same games and while PS3 does have the BluRay advantage, many games will still be delivered on DVD... Just as many PS2 games were still delivered on CD.

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

One thing I don't like is that I can buy both for basically the same amount of money, but I'll forever have an additional add-on HD DVD player with the Xbox 360, but built-in Blu-Ray with the PS3, though the unit is heavy.

I haven't lifted a PS3 myself, but it looks pretty chunky. Not that it's an issue, unless you're taking it with you everywhere you go.

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira

The thing is, I wanted the XBOX360 more than the PS3 because I loved my XBOX more than my PS2 but when I found out that Sony is going to use Blu-Ray, I was starting to change my mind because I knew for a fact that if the Dreamcast had a built in DVD player at that time, the PS2 would have struggled severely since the Dreamcast did have a lot of momentum and Nintendo also missed their chance because of a lack of DVD drive as well.

Good reasoning really... If the Dreamcast had a DVD drive, it would have potentially stole the market from the PS2. It was just slightly less powerful, but easier to develop for and had a 4 month head start. I really liked my Dreamcast... Too bad its market and games died so abruptly, I still have mine if anyone wants to buy it. :-) I think both Sega and Nintendo under-estimated the demand for DVD playback on their consoles. So many people looked at the PS2 as a way to buy a $300 game system that could also play DVDs instead of buying a $250 DVD player, which was going rate for a decent player at that time. Once again, Sony knows that for BluRay to succeed (because BD disc sales right now are in the toilet and HD-DVD is outselling them 3:1 according to current Toshiba propaganda). Sony needs the PS3 to catch on. Toshiba has only shipped about 300K HD-DVD player units world-wide. With the PS3 launch, Sony will have triple the installed base of BluRay players. ...And this is why BluRay will most likely succeed.

I've read reports that Microsoft originally intended to include HD-DVD drives in the XBOX360, but Toshiba couldn't deliver the first units in time or on budget for final consideration. ...Microsoft should have learned from their own success from the XBOX and from the PS2. I can't believe they didn't wait. And while they were waiting they could have spec'd a better GPU and possibly the next revision IBM PowerPC chip (oh wait, that's one of the "Cell" processors).

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira

surprisingly the one thing that I see as impressive about Sony’s controller is that you can be playing a demo of Moto GP on one hand and doing something else with the other hand. That’s what one guy did while talking on the cell. That makes game players more lazy because now you can use your other hand to eat snacks while your playing video games.

...And I thought kids were fat now. ;-)

[Heath McKnight]

I feel my Xbox is better than my PS2, but the problem is, I barely play videogames anymore. Don't know why, but maybe because I love losing time playing Resident Evil, Hulk: Ultimate Destruction or Halo/Halo 2, and I just don't feel like I can do that right now.

heath