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Old October 22nd, 2006, 07:56 PM   #1
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LCD sales to surpass CRT's in 2007

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/061022/crt_hanging_on.html?.v=2

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By next year, the tube TV will cede its crown of dominance to LCD sets for the first time, according to the market research firm iSuppli Corp. Sales of CRTs will fall from an estimated 14.4 million units this year to 10.4 million in 2007, while sales of LCD TVs are predicted to rise from 10.9 million units to 17.8 million.
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Old October 22nd, 2006, 08:30 PM   #2
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We knew this was coming, and it's nice that the numbers are finally adding up. Soon we'll be editing our content on the same monitors that our clients will be watching on as well.

I still use some old 21" CRT's as LCD technology wasn't up to par for my tastes. The contrast ratio, color depth, etc. etc.. Yet these are showing signs of age (typical fading over time). I'm holding out as long as possible.

About six months ago our company set a new policy to replace all the CRT's with flat panels. Much to do about weight, bulk, and more importantly, toxic waste. Monitors cost money to dispose and for large corporations, it can be a big expense.
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Old October 24th, 2006, 12:07 PM   #3
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Uh, OK... I'm confused. According to Consumer Reports and Forbes, this already happened last year. Dell, IBM, Gateway, Apple, HP don't even sell CRT displays anymore and haven't for nearly a year - a few vendors (like Apple and HP) stopped well over a year ago... Most major display manufacturers stopped shipping CRT displays (outside of 32" and smaller TV sets) two years ago. <shrug>

Now trying to estimate installed base of CRT vs. LCD displays is a different matter. I think it will still be some time yet before LCD and other flat panel technologies actually dominate in terms of installed units.
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Old October 25th, 2006, 10:52 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Kilgroe
Dell, IBM, Gateway, Apple, HP don't even sell CRT displays anymore and haven't for nearly a year - a few vendors (like Apple and HP) stopped well over a year ago...
The article is actually referring to CRT televisions, not computer monitors, however I agree. The sale of flatpanels, and DLP/LCD/LCOS rear projection displays already exceed CRT sales this year. Maybe iSupply should do their research again. Major retailers like Best Buy and Circuit City will no longer be carrying any CRT's except for HD CRTs in approximately 90% of their stores by the end of this year.
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Old November 25th, 2006, 01:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Kilgroe
Dell, IBM, Gateway, Apple, HP don't even sell CRT displays anymore and haven't for nearly a year - a few vendors (like Apple and HP) stopped well over a year ago...
you sure about that?

dell:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...102&cs=04&l=en

hp:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en...18-215010.html

ibm:
http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/st...40&result=true
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Old November 25th, 2006, 01:56 PM   #6
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Those monitors are EOL.
I am sure these are what's left
and they have a few sitting
in the warehouse.
I am pretty sure these are not being
manufactured anymore.
And EOL for CRT TV's mean EOL for
interlaced video!!!
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Old November 25th, 2006, 06:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
And EOL for CRT TV's mean EOL for
interlaced video!!!
Although that would be nice, it looks like interlaced video will stick around. A lot of broadcasters are going with 1080i broadcast.
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Old November 25th, 2006, 06:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Chan
Although that would be nice, it looks like interlaced video will stick around. A lot of broadcasters are going with 1080i broadcast.
Those monitors listed above are indeed EOL.. The manufacturers listed there do not produce or contract CRT displays anymore and haven't for a while. In the case of Dell and Apple, it's been well over a year. In fact, Apple discontinued CRT production when they discontinued the CRT eMac/iMac.

As for interlaced video... 1080i will persist for a long time, which is too bad... There is no reason for 1080i to have ever existed - the HD standards should have been 720p and 1080p only at 24, 25, 30, 50 and 60 FPS. But with that said, even 480i broadcasts are going to be with us for quite a while. There's also been a shake-up in the portable display market with talk of interlaced LCDs being used for notebook PCs and portable devices as they can theoretically consume less power (some people claim as much as 25% power savings). All I can say is that I've seen interlaced LCD in action at various trade shows and all I can say is - yuck. Even if it gains a 25% power savings, IMNSHO, this is one technology that should be avoided.
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Old November 26th, 2006, 12:57 AM   #9
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I would, like to know if he is talking about CRT TV sales in particularly, or CRT 's in general. After a quick scan thorough, I noticed he mentions LCD TV sales, but talks about CRTs.

But, despite where ever he includes all the numerous small crts (cockpit flight instruments and industry CRTs) we have to realise this includes all those 15-21 inch CRT televisions. So, in relation to those people that can afford HD, the people with bigger, more expensive televisions, the market has probably change over the last year or so.

The interesting thing is Sony's constant hoo-ha over 1080i, that has held back the camera market for years. You look out there, and the vast vast vast majority of installed HD sets are set up for 720p resolution or less. Now we are seeing more 1080 sets, but we could have started on 720p years earlier, and had many great 720p cameras upto now, and 720p50/60p. This push towards 1080 only for the broadcast industry has been a counter productive one, only now are we getting significant model numbers in the consumer price range with 1080, and a lot of that under appreciated previous 1080 equipment will most likely have to be replaced with the new h264 equipment. This is not to mention the reality of 8Mp SHD panels coming this year, that will be able to properly display (without interpolation) 720p and 1080p, and close to digital film resolutions. 1080 is almost like a missed opportunity, it can't even be saved by film use, because for some unfathomable marketing reason the 2K film resolution is bigger.

My father has a 32 inch Sony SD TV, and it beats LCD. I have started looking into LCD quality, and while NTSC colour range is less than PAL, and PAL is much less than the human eye, LCD's tend to be less again. At the moment I am eyeing a previous model 32 inch with 72% of NTSC (much better than previous technology), the more modern version is 92%. LED backed TV's are said to get 90% of the range of something, I don't know which. But I understand recent technology is able to get 90% of human visions, and a new technology will get more than human vision. Some of the newer sets are just so silky smooth, but the vast majority installed just don't beat a good CRT (especially pro calibrated computer monitor) because what they are capable of is much more than NTSC color.
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Old November 26th, 2006, 01:01 AM   #10
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I forgot, the article doesn't mention newer technologies that are expected to pout a dent in LCD sales at cheaper prices. Once these technologies get a head of steam, maybe even next year, it will be a significant portion of the flat panel sales.
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Old November 26th, 2006, 01:23 AM   #11
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I agree with Wayne, CRT beats LCD hands down.

I own a 32" Sony Triniton (Best SD TV according to consumer reports) and the other day I had a visitor friend and he asked me if it was a HDTV.
(BTW, I owned a 46'HD Toshiba rear projection TV set before..I did not like it and give it away as a gift...)

I am a professional photographer and for accurate color correction and retouching in photoshop CS2 I use a 19"CRT professional series Viewsonic monitor....the pictures when printed look almost identical in print as in the monitor.

Contrast,Color and Resolution are MUCH better in a good CRT than ANY LCD.

The trend towards LCD are gonna make CRT's much expensive and relegated for pro work.

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Old November 26th, 2006, 01:38 AM   #12
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I forgot to mention,
I also own a 22" Wide Screen LCD monitor for Video Editing
which I prefer for working with a longer timeline and also it can be next to my TV set and there is not magnetic field interfering as with my CRT & TV next to each other.

I also use a 17 inch LCD for the internet because its better on the eyes than CRT's...especially for those longer hours reading this forums...

Other field where CRT is King is in Games...especially in 3-D....

So there you have it, 2 technologies with its PROS & CONS.

So use both as YOU wish.

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Old November 26th, 2006, 10:32 PM   #13
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I agree, but soon SED, carbon, OLED, OEL etc etc, are going to trounce in on LCD sales with CRT like performance, and some cheaper, unlike what the article is promoting. Even though recent LCD techniques allow for performance like CRT, it is late and expensive.


Cesar

Even though CRTs are going to become more expensive, I think we will find that manufacturers will start converting over to the alternative, CRT like, flat panel technologies. So I don't think we will be starved in the long term yet.
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Old November 27th, 2006, 09:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesar Rubio
Contrast,Color and Resolution are MUCH better in a good CRT than ANY LCD.
I don't know about that... Many newer LCD panels have resolutions greater than any CRT I've ever seen. I run dual LCDs at 2560x1600 each and both are far better than the 24" FW900 CRTs that they replaced. The FW900 topped out at about 2048x1440 and even that was a topic of hot debate as it could start getting fuzzy on those fine details. The best CRT I ever owned was a 22" NANAO that could reliably pull off 2048x1536 without fuzzing hardly at all, great for CAD work but its color was crappy and splotchy as most shadow-mask displays tend to be. I can't stand Trinitron monitors, the phosphor persistance is way too low (helps them eliminate splotches and boost clairty), so my sensitive eyes had to have 100Hz refresh or higher in larger trinitron displays so I wouldn't see flicker. Even then, I would often see flicker in my peripheral vision at 100Hz. Oh, and that stupid horizontal support "wire" in the aperture grille is the devil. It was absolute evil at high resolutions where it took on the appearance of a horizontal row of pixels stuck as dark grey... And curse the displays that would have two of them! I bought one of those once and immediately returned it... As for high-res LCDs, 8MP~11MP panels have been available for a while, but at high prices, we'll see them go mainstream this year.

The latest batch of LCDs have great contrast. But good CRT displays still win for brightness and color reproduction. IMO, the latest crop of large-format displays from Samsung, Sony and others in the form of LCOS and DLP are superior to CRT -- I get better color reproduction (after calibration) out of my 5 month old Samsung DLP than I do out of my 18-month old, current model Sony studio monitor. I also have to say that the latest plasma sets from Panasonic, Samsung and Pioneer w/ 1080p capability are very nice. It's difficult to really compare them to CRT systems, since they are just a different method (charged gas vs. CRT) of illuminating the same phosphors. I find them to be equivalent to traditional CRT systems other than the underlying "mosquito" noise inherent to the technology, but newer panels have really cleaned that up. Charge latency (image persistance) is still a problem, but getting better... Many cheaper consumer plasmas lack the brightness and image stability of a good CRT, but you get what you pay for.
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Old November 27th, 2006, 06:36 PM   #15
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I've never been able to put out the dough for a large LCD but if I'm able ill definetly go with an Apple Cinema Display. I think they perform better than any other LCD on the market in terms of getting as close to a CRT as possible. CRT's of coarse are awesome ;). When I bought my MacPro I was like "o god I just spent loads on this computer and im hooking it up to a CRT monitor lol." Then I hooked it up and turned it on and WOW. I love my CRT monitors, they are crisp, colorful, and just awesome to look at. I don't have any issues with looking at them for long periods of time because of the high refresh rates available in the better models. CRT's rule but LCD's are great for screen space there's no doubt about it.

I guess the color reproduction thing can be an issue but when most of us (at least I think so), have some sort of external TV or Monitor to color correct check from it doesn't really matter I guess. LCD's are progressively getting better and they could sooner or later replace CRT completely although it might still be a while. Just think in the upcoming years....PLASMA computer displays come standard or w/e LOL. That would be very nice indeed, if they can fix that damn blotchy problem over time. :/ Ah well...long live the CRT.

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