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Old August 10th, 2010, 12:25 PM   #1
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Rewrap vs AIC for TM700 video

Hi all.

First post here. So I have a TM700 camera, recording at 60p. I'm using Final Cut Express which obviously doesn't support this codec. Using ClipWrap seems like a pretty good solution.

If I simply rewrap the video files, they import into FCE. The weird thing is that they play fine in the preview window, but if I add it to the timeline, then it needs to be rendered before it will playback video window. Why would it play fine in as a preview but not in the timeline?

If I convert the video to AIC, then it plays fine. However, if I compare the orginal footage to the AIC converted one, the AIC video looks ever so slightly different.

So to people that are using ClipWrap, what's the best way to get 1080/60p video into FCE?

Thanks!

Paul
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Old August 10th, 2010, 12:41 PM   #2
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You're running up against some limitations of the way FCE deals with formats like H.264 (the content inside AVCHD). For FCE, we strongly recommend using the transcode to AIC, as it'll bring your performance up to a reasonable level.

As far as looking slightly different - that sounds odd. There's definitely a potential for a gamma shift between Quicktime Player and Final Cut Express for example but that's about all I can think of. If you want to send some screen grabs to our support address, we'd be happy to dig into it further. dmsupport@divergentmedia.com

-Colin
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Old August 10th, 2010, 02:07 PM   #3
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hey Colin,

Thanks for the fast response. The differences were extremely subtle. Sort of like a little dullness in the color in the blades of green grass for example. But I had to look hard to see it. This was looking at the video in QT, not FCE.

So transcoding to AIC should lead to no perceivable loss of detail/resolution/color? If that's the case, then I'd just transcode everything to AIC. But obiously, I want to make sure no detail is lost.

Can you let me know if AIC shold be the same as the orginal video?

Thanks!

Paul
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Old August 10th, 2010, 03:13 PM   #4
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Yup, the AIC should be the same as the original.
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Old August 10th, 2010, 07:26 PM   #5
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That's awesome, thanks Colin. Now I can use FCE with this camera. Coolness :)
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Old August 15th, 2010, 11:45 AM   #6
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I'm not familiar with ClipWrap but as far as I know FCE or even the latest version of Final Cut Pro doesn't support 1920x1080 at 60p. There simply is no option to handle 1080/60p in the timeline in any native video format, including your TM700's H.264 in a non-standardized container, or Apple's transcoded formats i.e. AIC or ProRes. My guess is when you saw your clips played back in your timeline, they were either 1080/60i or 1080/30p. They would certainly look different from the original clips.
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Old August 15th, 2010, 02:09 PM   #7
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Even though FCP doesn't have presets for 60p, if you drop 60p content onto a timeline and let it adjust the settings for you, the content will work fine. (provided you've got enough cpu of course)
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Old October 1st, 2012, 09:19 PM   #8
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Re: Rewrap vs AIC for TM700 video

I have a few technical questions about 1080/60p in FCP7.

Obviously, I realize that this format is not a delivery format. However, it could be very useful to shoot in 60p because the footage (as stock footage) could be much more cleanly cross-converted to other formats (24p, 30p, 60i, 50i, etc.) if it starts as the highest frame rate progressive scan image as possible. With the number of new cameras available shooting 1080/60p at 28 Mbps AVC, it seems like a great option for keeping the greatest future use of the footage. (And AVC is especially clean with progressive frames....I'm amazed that 1080/60p @ 28 Mbps looks way way better than XDCAM422.)

The problem is that I produce a program that airs in 1080/60i. So I need for now an easy way to convert this 60p material into a clean 60i format for editing/delivery. In several of the test conversions I have tried with various methods, the footage isn't really being converted to 60i. I'm actually getting 30p segmented frame--there is no interlace being introduced. The software just tosses out every other frame of the 60p material.

So my questions are:

1. Can clipwrap create an AIC file that is truly 60i (each field is created from a separate frame of the 60p master)?

2. If not, what is ClipWrap creating? A 60p AIC file? Does AIC even support 60p? This codec was invented long before 1080/60p was available.

3. When I dump a 60p AIC file into a 1080/60i sequence in FCP 7, will FCP know what to do with it and give me true 60i after rendering?

Thanks for the help. I am really interested in shooting with 60p but only if I can still get real 60i out of it in the short term. 30p is horrible looking. I don't want my video to look like it came from a GoPro.

Jonathan
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Old October 1st, 2012, 09:22 PM   #9
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Re: Rewrap vs AIC for TM700 video

Hi Jonathan -

ClipWrap always preserves source framerate and field ordering, so your 60p input will stay 60p throughout the ClipWrap process. IE, we'll spit out a 1080p60 AIC (which AIC definitely supports).

What I would do is keep your project 60p for as long as possible - that gives you the most flexibility and the least render time. So, shoot 60p, clipwrap to 60p AIC, edit in a 60p timeline, and only worry about the conversion to 60i before output. In order to do the conversion to 60i, I'd recommend a tool like Compressor, which will give you direct control over field order, etc- you won't get that inside FCP.

-Colin
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Old October 6th, 2012, 05:10 AM   #10
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Re: Rewrap vs AIC for TM700 video

Thanks Colin!
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