Audio Gear For Documentary

[Jeff Phillips]

cheers Luke!

[Gene Brockhoff]

I second that on the flimsyness of the MA300. But if I'm not mistaken, doesn't the Beachtek plug into the 1/8"mini-jack while the MA300 fits into the hotshoe making for a tighter connection and one less cable to run? I thought that made for better sound.

[Luke Duncan]

Yes,
The Beachtek does plug into the 1/8" socket, but I don't know if that means the sound is any worse. I'll have to defer to the audio experts on that one. I'd like to know if that's the case.

Having it plug into the 1/8" hole Does free up your hotshoe for something else, though. Maybe a camera light that runs on your GL2 battery.

For what it's worth, I've been entirely pleased with the Canon-brand detachable light: the VL-10LI
It's just enough light to do what I need it to do, and it doesn't throw off the color temp too badly. It runs on another battery, though, so you'll need another one of those. I use the slim battery that came with the camera for the light and have 3 heavy-duty batts for powering each camera. Works great.


Jeff--be sure to report back to this forum after your trip is over.
Maybe post some clips or something. That kind of project sounds like a lot of fun to a poor overworked grad student like myself.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

a high impedance mini/3.5mm/eighth input doesn't sound any different than an XLR/lo impedance input. No worries. They are flimsier, and have potential issues due to cable lengths, but that's not related to the connector, it's a different issue.

[Evan Fisher]

I'm prepping to shoot a doc down in Mississippi. I'm pretty much used to doing my own audio in run and gun situations but for this shoot I want to bring a sound guy and boom pole. My question is: should the sound from the boom mic go directly to the camera or through a mixer (or other device) that my sound guy carries so he can directly monitor the audio before it goes to the camera. Would it also be a good idea to run it to DAT as well?

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Evan Fisher

I'm prepping to shoot a doc down in Mississippi. I'm pretty much used to doing my own audio in run and gun situations but for this shoot I want to bring a sound guy and boom pole. My question is: should the sound from the boom mic go directly to the camera or through a mixer (or other device) that my sound guy carries so he can directly monitor the audio before it goes to the camera. Would it also be a good idea to run it to DAT as well?

A Sound Devices MixPre or similar at the boom operator is ideal for this sort of thing, especially if you take a headphone feed back from the camera so he can monitor both what the mic is sending and what the camera is recording.

[Jim Feeley]

Depending on your needs and camera, you can probably get perfectly usable audio by just recording sound to the camera.

Of course, having a backup can be handy. But I wouldn't record to DAT for the situation you describe. Tapes aren't cheap, the recorders are big, and getting the audio off of tape and into you NLE takes some work. I still work with DAT, but not often for low-budget, personal projects.

Perhaps recording to a small hard drive recorder that the sound guy carries is all you need. I occasionally use a (no longer made) Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox 3 for low-budget and/or transcription use. Our you could use certain models of the iRiver recorder/players. Or one of the growing number of recorders from Edirol, M-Audio, and the like. Search here on "MicroTrack" and you should find some good discussions.

Basically, you'll have a digital file that you can bring into your NLE w/o too much work...and hopefully you'll just need those files to only cover rare audio glitches with the videotape audio...So maybe use clappers before really key shots, but otherwise just let it run wild...

Well, I gotta get back to work. Hope this gives you some little help...

Jim

[Evan Fisher]

We do have a bit of a budget and a set delivery date. Quality is important as is anything to save us time in post.

[Jim Feeley]

>budget

Cool. If you can afford it, buy or rent a nonlinear recorder like a Zaxcom Deva, Sound Devices 744T (or perhaps a 722), or even a Fostex FR2...or maybe the new Tascam HD-P2. I can vouch for all but the Tascam (it's pretty new). The Tascam take timecode in, but won't generate timecode.

But again, if you just need backup, a less-expensive hard-disk recorder (like those mentioned earlier) could do the job. Because a good sound guy or gal will help make sure you get good sound onto your videotape.

Best,

Jim

[Evan Fisher]

Thanks Guys.

I found an audio recorder that records WAV to flash media. Since I only need to back up 1 track, this will be plenty and cheap.

[Leo Pepingco]

G'day people,

I'm going to be doing a doco about teachers in Australia, and I currently own a Rhode video mic... which is pretty much directional as it only records anything it points at. (I have an FX1 btw...)

But I'm not sure this would be apporpriate for the kind of doco work I'm doing. I'll be in class rooms, theatre stages, playgrounds and staff rooms. And I thought, what mic would be the best (one thats not so directional?)

Thanks...

[Steve House]

There's really no "one size fits all" mic that would cover every situation you might encounter. Can you be a little more specfic about the scenarios you anticipate where you feel the Rode won't be suitable? Are you working by yourself or will you have a sound person/boom operator/mixer with you?

[Leo Pepingco]

I'm going to be on my own for this....

The one thing I'll need int he sound department is to capture sounds that the camera doesnt see... Basically, I'll need lots of school noise, classrooms and kids shouting etc.... The Rhode will only be pulled out for interviews and focused stuff...

The reason for the all the noise shots is to show how some of the rural schools I'll be going to run, operate, and if I can fill the space with sound, all the better. (i'll be narrating over it during these shots as well.) So its good bacground noise as well

One scenario when I went in to visit (no camera) I was walking with a teacher through a playground, a well liked one, and you kept hearing "Miss Miss, miss" from the kids. and it always forced me to turn my head. If I can replicate that, or get something that can make the audience feel that what the kids have to say is important, and invite the audience to turn and listen.

[Gareth Watkins]

Hi Leo
As Steve says there is no real all round mic for the type of stuff you want. I too shoot Documentary style clips with an FX1 on my own and face the same type of dilemma as you..

The most versatile all round mic I've found is the AT897. It sits nicely on the camera, is a pretty good boom mic, and even doubles as a handheld when needed. I use this mainly for the ambient audio either on camera or on a stand.
I double this with a Sennheiser radio lav set up. This I use for getting good dialogue audio from the subject. Incidentally combining the AT897 and the Senny trasmitter/receiver give a pretty good wireless handheld set up for Voxpop type situations..

I feed the AT into one channel and the Senny into the other and can then adjust the levels and mix in post.

If I have more than one person speaking it's a case of finding someone to hold the boom mic...not ideal but has worked up to now. I can't afford or justify a sound person with me all the time so make do on my own.

Hope this helps

Gareth

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Leo Pepingco

I'm going to be on my own for this....

The one thing I'll need int he sound department is to capture sounds that the camera doesnt see... Basically, I'll need lots of school noise, classrooms and kids shouting etc.... The Rhode will only be pulled out for interviews and focused stuff...

The reason for the all the noise shots is to show how some of the rural schools I'll be going to run, operate, and if I can fill the space with sound, all the better. (i'll be narrating over it during these shots as well.) So its good bacground noise as well

One scenario when I went in to visit (no camera) I was walking with a teacher through a playground, a well liked one, and you kept hearing "Miss Miss, miss" from the kids. and it always forced me to turn my head. If I can replicate that, or get something that can make the audience feel that what the kids have to say is important, and invite the audience to turn and listen.

What you're recording is called "wild sound" in the trade - sound that isn't recorded synced to action taking place on the camera. You can record wild with a portable recorder of some sort - I think the m-Audio Microtrack 2496 would be a good candidate for this as well as Marantz 670, Tascam HDP2, HHB's Minidisc reporter's kit, or you can go into more pricey models like the Sound Devices 722 or 744. The Microtrack would fit into a pocket while the others you'd carry slung in a bag over your shoulder. On a budget some of the iRivers and Minidisc recorders can work well in this application.

There are a lot of decent mics to choose from - omin's are a good choice for general environmental sounds, cardioids or hypercardioids for situations such as interviews where you want to isolate the sound being recorded from the surroundings. Dynamics tend to be less prone to handling noise than condensers and don't drain the recorder battery as fast since they don't require phantom power.

I'd suggest you do NOT try to record narration "in the field." Maybe a pocket mini-recorder to make vocal notes, but narration requires the closed and controlled environment of recording in studio to be really effective. It needs more presence and intimacy with the viewer than can be achieved recording in the field. You can narrate to picture by recording directly to a fresh audio track in your NLE as you watch the visuals in preview.