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Old August 30th, 2006, 05:06 PM   #16
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Jay, what would you think about using the
ME64 as an ambiance room mic?
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Old August 30th, 2006, 06:00 PM   #17
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Thanks for the link Steve. I've visited his site before, but never downloaded any of the sample audio files due to my slow internet connection. I recently just got broadband, so now I can actually listen to Ty's stuff without having to wait for hours!

Jay, good point about the frequencies! I just tried doing a Google search to find out if the Sennheiser CC2 Evolution G2 series are "compadible" in Taiwan, but couldn't find anything useful. Does anyone know first hand? Or, is there a site can answer my question?

I find it hard to believe that the CS-1 has "90% of the performance" of the double-the-price 416. If that was the case (admitedly I've never used a CS-1 before), surely the CS-1 would be more popular than the 416 (especially for the prosumer market)? Or is that 10% extra what you need to aim for?

The AKG SE300b with CK93 sounds quite interesting. It's selling for around AUD$500 here down under. What sort of wind protection would you recommend for this particular mic? Softie or Windjammer?

I would love to just use my NT3 on camera - but I think it would be too big and slightly too heavy.

I'm currently thinking the Sennheiser wireless lapel and CK93 may be the way to go, with a NT3/ME66 on stand (replacing the on-camera mic) when appropriate. Thoughts?
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Old August 30th, 2006, 06:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hocking
Thanks for the link Steve. I've visited his site before, but never downloaded any of the sample audio files due to my slow internet connection. I recently just got broadband, so now I can actually listen to Ty's stuff without having to wait for hours!

...
Absolutely make it a priority to dl and view his mic tutorial video in the video folder, before deciding what mics to get and use where.
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Old August 30th, 2006, 06:20 PM   #19
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Opps, I forgot to say this on my last post: "Obviously, before I spend any money, I'll spend a lot of time going through all of Ty's stuff and making a more educated decision". Thanks Steve for pushing the point! I really appreciate all your help! And thankyou to everyone for your continued advice and support!
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Old August 30th, 2006, 07:06 PM   #20
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Chris, I've never used a 416 but I used to own
a CS-1 and didn't think the sound of it was
all that great for the money. Now, it someone
is saying the CS-1 is so good just because of
the off-axis rejection, well, I can't speak
about that because I didn't use mine that
much. I just thought it sounded a bit thin
so didn't hold onto it very long.
One thing I should mention about the
NT3 is that it is VERY sensitive to
wind or air movement, such as a fan.
I don't know how you'd use it outdoors
except inside a full blimp. I've heard it's
got the same head size as a Shure SM-57
so wind protection for that should fit on the
NT3.
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Old September 1st, 2006, 02:41 AM   #21
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Yikes! I tried the NT3 on close vocals of
1 foot distance. Not recommended!
While the mic has worked okay on
vocals at 6 feet, it was pretty
rough on the close stuff. It was
sibilant and overall unpleasant and
harsh. It sounded like a telephone line
effect.
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Old September 1st, 2006, 04:17 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Largent
Yikes! I tried the NT3 on close vocals of
1 foot distance. Not recommended!
While the mic has worked okay on
vocals at 6 feet, it was pretty
rough on the close stuff. It was
sibilant and overall unpleasant and
harsh. It sounded like a telephone line
effect.
That's surprising. Did you have a pop filter between your vocalist and the mic? Could it have been overloading the preamp?
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Old September 1st, 2006, 08:09 AM   #23
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Yeah I've never had that problem at all and I've used the NT3 for VO work. It was fine, just not as nice as other mics I have and it did have unflattering clarity in the pickup of mouth noises if the talent was creating those.
Tell us more about the positioning, wind screens, pop filters, cables, phantom or battery power, condition of the battery, mic input gain etc.
There's a problem somewhere because that's not normal at all.


Quote: "Jay, what would you think about using the
ME64 as an ambiance room mic?"

You can definitely use an ME64 for room ambience if you want a very bright character that picks up everything. If there are dishes, plates, glasses and silverware in the room I would say pick another mic. There will just be too much high-end energy pushing your levels up unneccesarily, especially if you're working without EQ and going directly into the camera.
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Old September 3rd, 2006, 01:43 AM   #24
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I've also used a NT3 for voice over work, and although there are obviously better options, it did the job and sounded quite good. If it sounded like a "telephone line", I'd say there was some serious problems in your setup.

Steve, I have been downloading, watching and listening to Ty Ford's video/audio over the last couple of days. It really is such a fantasticly useful and informative collection of work! I've learnt a lot! Thanks Ty! Thanks Steve!

However, it didn't really help me in terms of the questions posted in this thread. The general consensus of Ty's work is that high quality boom mics are the way to go, and you should only use wireless lapels when a boom is not appropraite. On-camera mics are basically a "no no". I already knew this. Ty's videos/audio would be great if I was choosing a microphone to buy if I was using it on a boom. But it doesn't really (or at least I couldn't find anything helpful) for unideal situations, like solo shoots.

I couldn't find any AKG SE300b with CK93 reviews on Ty's site. Anyone had an experience of using these mics "on camera"?

Any other "on camera" alternatives?

Repeating some previously unanswered questions:
- Sennheiser ew 122-p G2 Wireless Lapel Mic. Comments? Alternatives?
- Radio Mic Frequencies in Taiwan? Will the Sennheiser work there?
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Old September 3rd, 2006, 07:41 AM   #25
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I still say that on a bus more than two feet away from the talent, it almost doesn't matter what mic you use--the result is going to be so overwhelmingly dominated by the background noise and freqency distortion of the environment. By analogy, if a space were going to be so filled with smoke that it was difficult to differentiate faces from more than six feet away, the video footage from a $300 cam would look about as good that from a $3000 cam. We have the sonic equivalent here.

Background noise from engine, road vibrations and the prattle of passengers is extremely high. Reflections are so close and so numerous that they are not perceived as echoes, but rather as a mass of wave interference that often attenuates the mid frequencies preferentially since they are the most prevalent, leaving the highs and lows more audible.

I think that a tight pattern and sensitivity are the key considerations, not frequency response or off-axis coloration. I'm inclined to believe that a shotgun would sound as good as a hyper in this envronment. And I'm virtually certain that a Rode VideoMic would sound as good on a bus as any other mic you put on a camera and shot with from conventional distances.

Chris, if you want to camera mount a $1000 mic that's your pivilege, but you can't justify it on the basis of this project IMHO. If you buy a VideoMic for $150, I'll give you $100 for it when you come back if you're willing to part with it. How's that? 8>)
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Old September 3rd, 2006, 09:19 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hocking
...
Steve, I have been downloading, watching and listening to Ty Ford's video/audio over the last couple of days. It really is such a fantasticly useful and informative collection of work! I've learnt a lot! Thanks Ty! Thanks Steve!

However, it didn't really help me in terms of the questions posted in this thread.
...
I couldn't find any AKG SE300b with CK93 reviews on Ty's site. Anyone had an experience of using these mics "on camera"?
...
- Radio Mic Frequencies in Taiwan? Will the Sennheiser work there?
The part of Ty's demo video I was thinking of when I suggested it is the comparison of the sound of a shotgun (Senn 416) with that of a hypercardioid (Schoeps CMC641) indoors both in the same position viz a viz the talent. The point being, no matter where you're thinking of placing the mic, the hyper sounds more natural in a reflective environment than does the shotgun.

When looking for reviews on the ck93, also search under "AKG Blueline"

The Senns will certainly work - whether your's are legal there or will be free from interference is another story. The Sennheiser website has a frequency finder page that will tell you what frequency blocks are legal in each country. Take their localized free channels info with a big grain of salt but at least the country by country pages will give you a start.
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Old September 3rd, 2006, 11:01 AM   #27
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With that NT3, the sound could have been influenced by
the mic pre I used. I've heard samples
where the sound of an AT4050, which is normally a
good-sounding mic, can be adversely influenced by the
pre you pair it up with. Until I heard these samples
with different pres, I didn't realize how significant
could be the impact.
In my case it was a pre from a minidisc.
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Old September 3rd, 2006, 11:54 PM   #28
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Fred, thanks for your honest advice. I really dig that analogy! I hope you don't mind if I use it in the future! I agree completely with what you're saying. For any bus footage, I'll probably use a wired/wireless lapel. Anything on-camera would be a backup/atmos. I'm sure a hyper on a boom would be a million times better, but unfortunately, no boom. The reason I'm asking about mics such as the AKG SE300b, is to use on-camera as a backup/atmos, and for use in other non-bus-like situations. I COULD use my ME66 on-camera, however I think there are better options. I understand NOTHING really sounds fantastic on-camera, but I'd like to try and capture the best sounds I can. So I'm not planning to waste money on a expensive mic for use on the bus. I want to purchase a microphone as a backup, but also one that I can use really effectively in other situations. Does that make sense?

Steve, thanks for your continued input. Yes, I have seen the video clip you are referring to (it's titled "Ty Ford Mic Tutorial Video"). It's a great clip - probably the best one on Ty's site. I understand the benefits of using a hyper indoors (mostly thanks to the people on this site).

I'll have a look for "AKG Blueline" reviews.

I had a look at the Sennheiser website, but it doesn't have any details for Taiwan. Anyone from Taiwan here?
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Old September 4th, 2006, 12:03 AM   #29
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hocking

I had a look at the Sennheiser website, but it doesn't have any details for Taiwan. Anyone from Taiwan here?
Not from Taiwan, but just finished doing a series of audio trainings there, using my AT U100, no issues in any of 3 very large venues. that doesn't mean I was within legal contraints, just that everything worked great.
BTW, I'll argue that no "normal" bus is as loud as a twin engine Otter, KingAir, or Caravan with no door, and I regularly record in those environments using an AT 4053 and a large 961 boundary mic. I've got at least 75 jumps in those environments, and documented one of them at:
http://www.vasst.com/resource.aspx?i...6-f532c85adb79
Dunno if that helps, but it's a regular occurence for me, and I get extremely usable audio from those scenarios, even in this jump, where the judge had a very quiet voice.
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Old September 4th, 2006, 12:09 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hocking
I understand NOTHING really sounds fantastic on-camera
That's not entirely true. Human speech will not sound good if recorded with an on-camera mic, unless you're up in someone's face. For recording ambient sound, however, you could gaff-tape the mic to your ankle if you wanted to... it doesn't really matter too much where you put the mic, most of the time. Really, a strong argument could be made for recording atmos from a camera-mounted position; the audio and video perspectives will match.

On the bus: if you decide to wire your talent with a lav and use a camera-mounted mic for ambient sound, think about going with something directional on the camera and point it away from your talent, so you can get as little of your subject's speech in your atmo track as possible. And don't worry about using a really expensive mic for those ambient sounds, like Fred was saying. It's just not going to make that much--if any--of a difference. Atmos just aren't that critical usually, because the frequencies are all over the place, and you're also turning them way down in the mix anyway to make room for the dialogue. Any quasi-decent mic with a relatively wide freq. response will be more than good enough.

I think you might find, after all is said and done, that all you'll need is the lavalier track anyway. But it won't hurt to try to get a separate atmo track just in case, I guess.
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