So what's the deal with HDMOM?

[Adam Gold]

Hey Chris--

Are you spinning off all the HD fora, renaming the whole site, or just sprucing up everything? Curious minds want to know...

[Chris Hurd]

Just the consumer-oriented fora.

See HD Mom: About

DV Info Net: professional
HD Mom: consumer

An active and valid DVi account registered prior to 25 May 2009
can be used to log in to www.hdmom.com -- hope this helps,

[Adam Gold]

Yeah, I probably should have read that first; all is explained very well there. I was actually reading it as you were responding, and tried to edit the original to reflect that, but as usual you're too fast for me.

Site looks great. Just what I need: another place to drop by six times a day...

[Chris Hurd]

Thanks! Heh. I tried to make it easy by importing all the pre-existing DVi user accounts.

[Dylan Tobias]

I think this is a very bad idea. You are going to loose a lot of regulars who just cannot be bothered to go to different forums, the name is very bad too.

[Chris Hurd]

Well, the name is one thing -- it's certainly easy enough to remember, and ultimately it's changeable.

There's a large percentage of our regulars who *do* post on other sites though, and I made it easy for them by keeping all of the login info intact. I think those of our regulars who have an interest in the consumer side of things will click through.

Basically, in my opinion, the consumer market has never been adequately served (and to be honest, I never really cared all that much about it until it started to get interesting with the advent of affordable HD camcorders). There was nothing on the Web that was "like DV Info" for the consumer market, so I figured it was time to start one.

We've done well with our consumer-related fora here at DVi, but the real-names restriction, which is an absolute must for pro-oriented discussions, can be a bit of a hindrance for the average Jane or Joe who just wants to know how to operate the camcorder they just bought at the local electronics chain store. That's who the target audience is. It'll be similar to DVi in many respects, but at the same time it'll be different in other ways for certain key aspects -- which is something that's very hard to do under one roof.

It's not so much about splitting DV Info (we're talking less than 50,000 posts out of a database of over 1 million, so it's not like we're losing all that much) -- it's all about gaining new ground. We're going to do for the consumer market what we've done for the pro market, and that is to create the best space on the web for learning about this technology.

[Brian Standing]

It's an interesting idea, Chris, but I think it's going to get harder and harder for you to decide what's "Pro" and what's "Consumer" as time goes by. The line between "consumer," "prosumer," and "professional" has been hazy for a while, and I wouldn't be surprised if that distinction breaks down completely within the next few years.

For example:
- a small, interchangeable lens camera with a sensor larger than S35 and manual controls that sends uncompressed video out an HDMI or HD-SDI pipe;
- a full-size shoulder-mount camera with full auto and 1/3" chips that records in AVCHD onto SD cards and costs less than $3,000

How would you classify these?

If Phil Bloom gets paid to use a Lumix GH1 on his next shoot, doesn't that make it a "professional" camera?

[Chris Hurd]

Good points, Brian -- I set the cutoff at around $2000 though.

The delineation between "consumer" vs. "professional" has always been in how it's used. So sure, there's folks that will use a GH1 to make money, and there are dentists and lawyers that have XL2s that have never shot beyond their back yard. I had to think hard about the Sony HD1000, since it really is one of only two full-size shoulder mount camcorders costing less than $2000 (the other one is the Panasonic HMC70). The Panasonic stays here since it's in the AVCCAM line, most of which costs more than $2K. To some degree there will be some overlap, sure.

We'll always keep the SDI outputs right here on DVi, but there's also been a growing market that shops for HD palmcorders at Best Buy or wherever, and I wanted to give them an online discussion place to go as well.

[Mike Beckett]

I'm not against the principle, but the name doesn't really travel well, particularly in the UK and other English-speaking regions. The word "mom" makes it very seem American to me, it's not as neutral as "DVinfo". "Mom" always grates for me in films, just as "mammy" probably puzzles people not from Ireland! (HD ma, anyone?).

Just a thought.

Overall, I do think the concept is good though - there's only so big a business or a forum can get before it becomes unwieldy and splitting it into separate products/brands is a good thing.

[Chris Hurd]

I appreciate the insight, Mike -- I was looking for a family-friendly name, and have to admit that I didn't put much consideration into the international aspect of it (like I said, everything is changeable though). It's a five-letter domain name, and that was the primary appeal for me. You're right, it had to be split, and the time was right to do that. Our forum index page was getting very long, and I didn't want to hide things behind tabs or drill-downs. Plus, it'll have a slightly different character than DVi -- though just as friendly to be sure.

[Josh Dahlberg]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

I appreciate the insight, Mike -- I was looking for a family-friendly name, and have to admit that I didn't put much consideration into the international aspect of it (like I said, everything is changeable though). It's a five-letter domain name, and that was the primary appeal for me. You're right, it had to be split, and the time was right to do that. Our forum index page was getting very long, and I didn't want to hide things behind tabs or drill-downs. Plus, it'll have a slightly different character than DVi -- though just as friendly to be sure.

Chris I think the site's a great idea but I have to second what Mike said. There are a lot of US spellings / pronunciations that I rather like (and some, like 'z' usage I prefer); but mum/mom is such a personal, homely word, for those who don't pronunce it 'mom' it's hard to identify with.

I taught English in Asia for a couple of years using US text books and every time I came across the word "mom" I struggled with it... it was so alien to me. It could well be that Mike and I are in a tiny minority, but it's definitely worth a thought.

Other words like 'color/colour' for instance, are neither here nor there - they don't have such intimate resonance, and besides that pronunciation is not affected. I'm sure a lot of people will find this sentiment ridiculous, but at least for me mom/mum have a very different sense to them.

[Jack Kelly]

I agree that perhaps the consumer market needs to better served. But would it be possible to start a whole new forum aimed at "Hockey Moms" rather than copy-and-paste the existing forums over to HDmom? e.g. you'd have a GH1 forum on DVinfo.net and a GH1 forum on HDmom and they would have different content.

I agree with some of the posts above which point out that it's not really valid to divide *hardware* into "pro" and "consumer". The pro/consumer distinction is more about how the kit is used rather than the kit itself. An XLR cable is an XLR cable no matter if it's used by a school drama club or Brian Eno.

For example, I'm planning to buy a GH1 with a shoulder support, matte box, follow focus etc. I want a forum where I can ask other folks which shoulder support and matte box people would recommend. I was about to post it on DVinfo.net but now I find that the DVinfo.net GH1 forum is now re-branded as "HD Mom". Most "HD Moms" wont give a damn about matte boxes and shoulder supports so I wont post my question in HDMom.

[Justin Thieda]

Definitely feeling a little alienated by this move. I know that was not your intention, so you don't have to defend yourself. It just feels like we are losing potential resources with this move. If I ask a question that someone could have answered on DVi, but they don't use DVMOM, b/c they don't use those cameras anymore, it seems like the probability of some questions getting answered goes down slightly. I know that there are plenty of smart people that will come over with my "less than intelligent" butt and be perfectly capable of answering any question I ask (since I have already received help from several of them), but the possibility of something not being answered could occur when tougher questions are presented to the fora. Then again, they still may not get answered if we where one big happy family, but at least I would know that it was because no one was sure, and not just because a fraction of the group was willing and able to read my question.

Also, not sure about the name either. Guess we are the Momma's boys (and girls) of DVinfo. Oh well.

Thanks for reading my whine,
Justin

[Lorinda Norton]

I’m trying to empathize with folks who are having trouble with the name. If the owner of this site lived in, say, the UK and decided to create a sister site called HD MUM it wouldn’t make a dime’s worth of difference to me. (Put the coinage of your choice in there.) When I referred people to the site I’d just tell them “it’s in the UK” and they’d get it.

As for the other concerns, I do empathize, but at the same time it’s a great opportunity for knowledgeable people here to lend a hand to those who may be intimidated by this place. I know when I signed up it was hard asking that first question--and several after that.

You might be surprised who all heads over there to answer the tough questions. Give it a chance.

[Phil Bloom]

Hey Chris!

Honestly, am not a fan of HD Mom, it is very American centric and almost cheapens and belittles a really important market, the low budget indie film maker doesn't want to be called a soccer mom! Is there a way you can keep the dvinfo brand if you enter through dvinfo and hdmom can co-exist passively in the background if you enter through that?

Cameras will be pigeonholed due to their retail price, like the GH1, and don't deserve that!

Like the colours though!!

Best and keep up the good work!

Phil

P.S. when I dated an New Yorker for a year over there I kept on saying to her it's MUM not MOM!! ;-)