Sony forum area reorganization at DVinfo.net

Michael Stevenson · December 23rd, 2014, 10:53 PM

Note from Admin: Scroll down for the discussion about reorganizing the entire Sony camcorder forum area...

Chris,

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/converge...dyssey-7q.html
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...bc-2014-a.html
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xav...pressions.html
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/dv-info-...-part-1-a.html

Can we get a new forum for the Sony PXW-FS7?

Joachim Hoge · January 4th, 2015, 08:27 AM

+1
AS more and more Cameras are coming out in the wild that would be great

Eric C. Petrie · January 9th, 2015, 10:51 AM

I would recommend a restructuring of the whole Sony section. Right now it's broken down by codec, AVCCAM, XDCam, XAVC, etc. Thats not really how people think about cameras. The Canon section is smartly put together. There is a section for the Cinema EOS cameras, a section for ENG-type cameras, a section for DSLRs, etc. They don't separate the C100 and the C300 simply because they use different codecs.

The Sony page should have a CineAlta section that contains, F55, F5, FS7, FS700, FS100. Then there should be a DSLR page for A7s, A99, etc. Then an ENG page for EX1, PMW-300, PXW-X200, etc.

To me that would be far more intuitive, sorting by "genre" of camera, not codecs.

Eric Petrie
provideoandtape.com
Lease The Canon C100 starting at $129 a month
Lease the Sony FS7 starting at $248 a month

Andy Wilkinson · January 9th, 2015, 10:55 AM

I agree with Eric. I find (and know others find) the current Sony section confusing. Would be great to use this opportunity to tidy it up and make it more intuitive.

Brian Murphy · January 9th, 2015, 11:00 AM

First let me say how much I appreciate the hard work that goes into making this board so valuable to all of us out there and I want to add "Around the World." I truly enjoy getting a wide perspective on all of the aspects of our work and DVINFO is excellent.
I would also like to join the Sony gang above and applaud the suggestion for a new structure.
Brian

Chris Hurd · January 13th, 2015, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric C. Petrie

I would recommend a restructuring of the whole Sony section.

I agree wholeheartedly; a re-structuring has been long overdue. If anyone else has any organizational suggestions, I'm certainly open to hearing them.

Gabe Strong · January 16th, 2015, 03:07 AM

I think what Eric said is what makes the most sense, and would second the suggestion.

Wacharapong Chiowanich · January 17th, 2015, 11:52 AM

+1 with Eric. Camera users' interest normally lies first on the type or form factor of the cameras then the codec as the overall big picture for the image quality and then the medium they record on/output to as the determinant of the cost effectiveness of the whole system.

Tim Dashwood · January 22nd, 2015, 05:14 PM

+1 for Eric's suggestion. I can help moderate the FS7 forum.

Chris Hurd · January 29th, 2015, 05:49 PM

Thanks, fellows -- I'm working this up.

It's been suggested to file the FS7 under CineAlta. However, it's listed on the Pro Sony USA site under XDCAM: https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/micro-...oduct-PXWFS7K/

Meanwhile their CineAlta line-up seems to be the F65, F55, F5, F3, FS700 and FS100, according to https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/show-highend/

Am I missing something? Is the FS7 not under the CineAlta brand?

Chris Hurd · January 29th, 2015, 05:54 PM

Also, I suppose there's not much point to a dedicated "4K category" since it's all gonna be 4K sooner or later. I like the idea of categorizing by body type. Must say though that I'm kinda stumped as to why the FS7 isn't branded CineAlta (just checked, and there's a big XDCAM badge right on the body).

Wacharapong Chiowanich · January 29th, 2015, 07:58 PM

Never mind the branding, Chris, the form factor and how it's going to be used by people interested in it or already shooting with it is closer to the FS100/700, F5/55 rather than the ENG XDCAM cameras.

Chris Hurd · January 30th, 2015, 01:37 PM

I agree with you 100% Wacharapong -- but I think that category will be called "CineAlta and Large Single Sensor" just to make it right.

So that line-up will be: F65, F55, F7, F5, F3, FS700 and FS100. In other words, all CineAlta plus the FS7.

However, there are a few more camcorders with large sensors: the NEX-VG900, which is full frame A-mount, and the NEX-VG30, which are APS E-mount. Plus the NEX EA-50 which is also APS E-mount. And then the PXW X70 which has a 1.0" CMOS with a fixed lens. Technically they qualify as large single-sensor camcorders... do we include them in the same category, along with the FS7?

Shoulder mounts are easy -- there are six. Three are disc based (the F800, 700 and 850) and three are card based (the X500, 400 and 320). No problem there.

Sony Alpha, we'll put them all in there, A-mount and E-mount. Or should we separate those two sizes, like we do for Canon?

The handhelds are the tricky part. There are too many to drop into one category. Sony separates them into three groups: first there's "Broadcast & Production" (XDCAM), and then a group filed under "NXCAM & AVCHD," and finally the prosumer camcorders listed on their consumer site. We don't have to list them the way Sony does, especially since some of the consumer models are close twins of some of the pro versions. Here are those three groups of handhelds, including the previously mentioned "large single sensor" models:

Broadcast & Production XDCAM: Z100, X70, X180, X200 and PMW 300.

NXCAM & AVCHD: NX5, NX3/1, EA50, NX70, NX30 and -- technically shoulder mounts from junior college: MC2500, MC2000.

Pro Quality Camcorders: AX1, VG900, VG30, AX100B, CX900B.

I'm open to ideas about how we should set up the forum categories for this big batch of handhelds... help!

Paul Wood · January 30th, 2015, 02:41 PM

I had a look at the Spanish Sony site, and they have a pretty sensible category called ¨Digital Cinema Cameras¨ which include the F65, F23, F55, F7, F5, F3, FS700 and FS100.

Then XDCAM with the majority, which include both shoulder mount and handheld - i.e. PMW300, PDW F350,PMW Z100, PMW180, PDW 850, PXW160, X500,X 200 and the PXW 70, basically camera used as ENG.

The third is AVCHD including EA 50, VG900/30/20/10 NX5, NX3, NX70, NX30 and the MC series.

Lastly the A series - A7S, A series - 5x, and the prosumer camcorders - AX1, AX100B, CX900B

Dave Blackhurst · January 30th, 2015, 04:13 PM

I think that Paul has a pretty good breakdown....

"F(S) series" for the "pro" gear

P(xx) series for midline

Where it gets tricky is the "X's" - you have the RX (Cybershots) that are right on the border of a dedicated video camera, with XAVC-S codecs... the AX's (4K), the older CX/PJ series (consumer level, FHD and 4K) "Handycams". Instinctively, I think of the "1" class" (RX10, RX100, and AX100) to be in their own category, sort of... Almost forgot the NX's... though those may "age out" shortly?

Then to toss the whole thing in a ditch you've got the "old" Alphas with A mount, and A(xx) format, and the "NEW" Alphas that are E-mount, including the "old NEX" and now the A7 Full Frame series in it's many variations!

Part of the problem is that Sony itself has not been terribly consistent with their product nomenclature... and their naming/marketing scheme has undergone a lot of sudden "turns", at least when it comes to the "consumer" stuff.

I think it's safe that 4K will become more "standard", but there are products right now that CAN shoot 4K but don't... XAVC S is obviously replacing AVCHD, but I guess they are going slow waiting for higher speed media... and faster processors in enough quantity to put in the entire lineup?

OOPS, almost forgot the "action cams".... oy, what a mess!

December 23rd, 2014, 10:53 PM	#1
Michael Stevenson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lynnwood, WA Posts: 98	Sony forum area reorganization Note from Admin: Scroll down for the discussion about reorganizing the entire Sony camcorder forum area... Chris, http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/converge...dyssey-7q.html http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...bc-2014-a.html http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xav...pressions.html http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/dv-info-...-part-1-a.html Can we get a new forum for the Sony PXW-FS7?

January 4th, 2015, 08:27 AM	#2
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	re: Sony forum area reorganization +1 AS more and more Cameras are coming out in the wild that would be great

January 9th, 2015, 10:51 AM	#3
Eric C. Petrie Major Player Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 225	re: Sony forum area reorganization I would recommend a restructuring of the whole Sony section. Right now it's broken down by codec, AVCCAM, XDCam, XAVC, etc. Thats not really how people think about cameras. The Canon section is smartly put together. There is a section for the Cinema EOS cameras, a section for ENG-type cameras, a section for DSLRs, etc. They don't separate the C100 and the C300 simply because they use different codecs. The Sony page should have a CineAlta section that contains, F55, F5, FS7, FS700, FS100. Then there should be a DSLR page for A7s, A99, etc. Then an ENG page for EX1, PMW-300, PXW-X200, etc. To me that would be far more intuitive, sorting by "genre" of camera, not codecs. Eric Petrie provideoandtape.com Lease The Canon C100 starting at $129 a month Lease the Sony FS7 starting at $248 a month

January 9th, 2015, 10:55 AM	#4
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	re: Sony forum area reorganization I agree with Eric. I find (and know others find) the current Sony section confusing. Would be great to use this opportunity to tidy it up and make it more intuitive. __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

January 9th, 2015, 11:00 AM	#5
Brian Murphy Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Monreal, Quebec,Canada Posts: 249	re: Sony forum area reorganization First let me say how much I appreciate the hard work that goes into making this board so valuable to all of us out there and I want to add "Around the World." I truly enjoy getting a wide perspective on all of the aspects of our work and DVINFO is excellent. I would also like to join the Sony gang above and applaud the suggestion for a new structure. Brian __________________ Brian Murphy Director-Editor-DoP Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto

January 16th, 2015, 03:07 AM	#7
Gabe Strong Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Juneau, AK Posts: 814	re: Sony forum area reorganization I think what Eric said is what makes the most sense, and would second the suggestion.

January 17th, 2015, 11:52 AM	#8
Wacharapong Chiowanich Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 400	re: Sony forum area reorganization +1 with Eric. Camera users' interest normally lies first on the type or form factor of the cameras then the codec as the overall big picture for the image quality and then the medium they record on/output to as the determinant of the cost effectiveness of the whole system.

January 22nd, 2015, 05:14 PM	#9
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	re: Sony forum area reorganization +1 for Eric's suggestion. I can help moderate the FS7 forum. __________________ Tim Dashwood

January 29th, 2015, 05:49 PM	#10
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	re: Sony forum area reorganization Thanks, fellows -- I'm working this up. It's been suggested to file the FS7 under CineAlta. However, it's listed on the Pro Sony USA site under XDCAM: https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/micro-...oduct-PXWFS7K/ Meanwhile their CineAlta line-up seems to be the F65, F55, F5, F3, FS700 and FS100, according to https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/show-highend/ Am I missing something? Is the FS7 not under the CineAlta brand? __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 29th, 2015, 05:54 PM	#11
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	re: Sony forum area reorganization Also, I suppose there's not much point to a dedicated "4K category" since it's all gonna be 4K sooner or later. I like the idea of categorizing by body type. Must say though that I'm kinda stumped as to why the FS7 isn't branded CineAlta (just checked, and there's a big XDCAM badge right on the body). __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 29th, 2015, 07:58 PM	#12
Wacharapong Chiowanich Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 400	re: Sony forum area reorganization Never mind the branding, Chris, the form factor and how it's going to be used by people interested in it or already shooting with it is closer to the FS100/700, F5/55 rather than the ENG XDCAM cameras.

January 30th, 2015, 01:37 PM	#13
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	re: Sony forum area reorganization I agree with you 100% Wacharapong -- but I think that category will be called "CineAlta and Large Single Sensor" just to make it right. So that line-up will be: F65, F55, F7, F5, F3, FS700 and FS100. In other words, all CineAlta plus the FS7. However, there are a few more camcorders with large sensors: the NEX-VG900, which is full frame A-mount, and the NEX-VG30, which are APS E-mount. Plus the NEX EA-50 which is also APS E-mount. And then the PXW X70 which has a 1.0" CMOS with a fixed lens. Technically they qualify as large single-sensor camcorders... do we include them in the same category, along with the FS7? Shoulder mounts are easy -- there are six. Three are disc based (the F800, 700 and 850) and three are card based (the X500, 400 and 320). No problem there. Sony Alpha, we'll put them all in there, A-mount and E-mount. Or should we separate those two sizes, like we do for Canon? The handhelds are the tricky part. There are too many to drop into one category. Sony separates them into three groups: first there's "Broadcast & Production" (XDCAM), and then a group filed under "NXCAM & AVCHD," and finally the prosumer camcorders listed on their consumer site. We don't have to list them the way Sony does, especially since some of the consumer models are close twins of some of the pro versions. Here are those three groups of handhelds, including the previously mentioned "large single sensor" models: Broadcast & Production XDCAM: Z100, X70, X180, X200 and PMW 300. NXCAM & AVCHD: NX5, NX3/1, EA50, NX70, NX30 and -- technically shoulder mounts from junior college: MC2500, MC2000. Pro Quality Camcorders: AX1, VG900, VG30, AX100B, CX900B. I'm open to ideas about how we should set up the forum categories for this big batch of handhelds... help! __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 30th, 2015, 02:41 PM	#14
Paul Wood Major Player Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 485	re: Sony forum area reorganization I had a look at the Spanish Sony site, and they have a pretty sensible category called ¨Digital Cinema Cameras¨ which include the F65, F23, F55, F7, F5, F3, FS700 and FS100. Then XDCAM with the majority, which include both shoulder mount and handheld - i.e. PMW300, PDW F350,PMW Z100, PMW180, PDW 850, PXW160, X500,X 200 and the PXW 70, basically camera used as ENG. The third is AVCHD including EA 50, VG900/30/20/10 NX5, NX3, NX70, NX30 and the MC series. Lastly the A series - A7S, A series - 5x, and the prosumer camcorders - AX1, AX100B, CX900B

January 30th, 2015, 04:13 PM	#15
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Sony forum area reorganization I think that Paul has a pretty good breakdown.... "F(S) series" for the "pro" gear P(xx) series for midline Where it gets tricky is the "X's" - you have the RX (Cybershots) that are right on the border of a dedicated video camera, with XAVC-S codecs... the AX's (4K), the older CX/PJ series (consumer level, FHD and 4K) "Handycams". Instinctively, I think of the "1" class" (RX10, RX100, and AX100) to be in their own category, sort of... Almost forgot the NX's... though those may "age out" shortly? Then to toss the whole thing in a ditch you've got the "old" Alphas with A mount, and A(xx) format, and the "NEW" Alphas that are E-mount, including the "old NEX" and now the A7 Full Frame series in it's many variations! Part of the problem is that Sony itself has not been terribly consistent with their product nomenclature... and their naming/marketing scheme has undergone a lot of sudden "turns", at least when it comes to the "consumer" stuff. I think it's safe that 4K will become more "standard", but there are products right now that CAN shoot 4K but don't... XAVC S is obviously replacing AVCHD, but I guess they are going slow waiting for higher speed media... and faster processors in enough quantity to put in the entire lineup? OOPS, almost forgot the "action cams".... oy, what a mess!