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Old June 22nd, 2013, 04:53 PM   #16
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re: My First Lighting Class; or How I Learned to Light

thanks for the link.

i try to read art adam's blog whenever he posts and i remember.

i am often impressed and sometimes left wondering, "oh, is that what he means?".

when i zoomed in on the accompanying photos within the article, it looked to my eyes that art was using mole-richardson tungsten instruments and bouncing the light in front of the "model".

in the image, the "model" looks over-exposed while on the monitor "she" looks great.

with all the talk of cool lights, i am often impressed there is still a place for "hot" moles and arri fresnels, especially with big sensor cameras who can do wonders with 300 watts of tungsten light in a medium close-up.

ymmv.

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions
nyc
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 07:33 PM   #17
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re: My First Lighting Class; or How I Learned to Light

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Adams View Post
Personally I'd love to see Vince LaForet light a set. I'm sure I'd learn tons. He does amazing work.
I'm asking because I honestly don't know, but has Vince actually shot video that has lighting he set up? Reverie was more event videography, and he didn't DP the C300 film (Mobius).
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 02:05 PM   #18
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re: My First Lighting Class; or How I Learned to Light

Gary, see my post above.

Rob, there is definitely a place still for hot lights, until LED's and other new technologies completely replace the tungsten units we are used to at a reasonable cost. I can't make room in my lighting budget for a 600w LED fresnel that costs four times the rental of it's tungsten equivalent. The LED source fours, for example, only have half the punch of the classic unit. And, we are only now starting to see LED units that approach the full-spectrum look of tungsten.

While it is certainly possible to light a medium closeup using a 300w unit on any EI800 camera, what if said closeup was part of a scene that had a master shot that showed the whole room. That head needs to be much further away, and thus may not have enough punch, especially if it is diffused. I still use plenty of big heads to get the job done. The sun is still as bright as it always was, so balancing to it requires just as much firepower, for example. Completely controlled sets can be orchestrated with smaller units, sure, but bear in mind that there are many reasons for lighting to a higher level than one might think. While the indie world embraces the fastest lenses possible, many high end sets are lit to a 4, give or take. You can always add ND or drop the EI on the camera if you want the shallower look. I have a scene coming up tomorrow that has some 120 fps work, so I will be lighting the set to around an 8 to give me enough stop for the high speed stuff, then adding scrim etc. to knock things down to a 2.8 2/3 for the main body of the work (could be done with ND's, we'll see what's the most efficient on the day).
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 05:46 PM   #19
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re: My First Lighting Class; or How I Learned to Light

Epic article Art, I liked 'Australian films were very strong compositionally and lit very simply'

That's because we didn't have enough lamps to go around, but it is getting better. lol.

Cheers.
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Old June 25th, 2013, 08:14 AM   #20
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re: My First Lighting Class; or How I Learned to Light

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Originally Posted by Charles Papert View Post
Gary, see my post above.

Rob, there is definitely a place still for hot lights, until LED's and other new technologies completely replace the tungsten units we are used to at a reasonable cost. I can't make room in my lighting budget for a 600w LED fresnel that costs four times the rental of it's tungsten equivalent. The LED source fours, for example, only have half the punch of the classic unit. And, we are only now starting to see LED units that approach the full-spectrum look of tungsten.

While it is certainly possible to light a medium closeup using a 300w unit on any EI800 camera, what if said closeup was part of a scene that had a master shot that showed the whole room. That head needs to be much further away, and thus may not have enough punch, especially if it is diffused. I still use plenty of big heads to get the job done. The sun is still as bright as it always was, so balancing to it requires just as much firepower, for example. Completely controlled sets can be orchestrated with smaller units, sure, but bear in mind that there are many reasons for lighting to a higher level than one might think. While the indie world embraces the fastest lenses possible, many high end sets are lit to a 4, give or take. You can always add ND or drop the EI on the camera if you want the shallower look. I have a scene coming up tomorrow that has some 120 fps work, so I will be lighting the set to around an 8 to give me enough stop for the high speed stuff, then adding scrim etc. to knock things down to a 2.8 2/3 for the main body of the work (could be done with ND's, we'll see what's the most efficient on the day).
charles-

thank you for taking the time and interest to further the conversation.

as a relatively junior lighting person, my first inclination was to "learn the rules". three point lighting became the standard. and my efforts looked it. standard.

i went out and got a rifa lc55 softbox. wow. 45 degrees up. 45 degrees over. perfect soft nose shadow. chin shadow tucked under. i was learning more "rules" and my images looked it. standard.

now i must admit, i will gladly spend $100-ish for an afternoon lighting seminar. being in the nyc metro area, i have taken several from rather accomplished dps with various backgrounds-narrative, commercial, documentary, low budget. at these workshops, i am still listening for "rules". if i can take home one bit of knowledge, one true insight, one brand new way of looking/seeing then my time and money is well spent.

most of my work is making short docs for corporations, non-profits, unions. my ability to light a face in an interview setting and allow that lighting to evoke a spirit about those before my camera is my goal.

interesting enough, with all the technology pointing towards the use of "cool" lights, the last two workshops which i found really helpful spoke of "cool" lights but spent most of the time working with "hot" lights.

omg, can a chimera pancake make a woman look darn good!

and the source was just a 300 watt tota instrument put in the right spot.

double wow!

"rules" + lessons + new mistakes = my experience

thanks for sharing.

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions
nyc
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Old June 25th, 2013, 10:59 AM   #21
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re: My First Lighting Class; or How I Learned to Light

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Originally Posted by Rob Katz View Post
now i must admit, i will gladly spend $100-ish for an afternoon lighting seminar. being in the nyc metro area, i have taken several from rather accomplished dps with various backgrounds-narrative, commercial, documentary, low budget. at these workshops, i am still listening for "rules". if i can take home one bit of knowledge, one true insight, one brand new way of looking/seeing then my time and money is well spent.
Rob, are you saying that of these classes you've taken, that so far you haven't really gotten that one bit of knowledge that you are looking for?
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Old June 27th, 2013, 08:42 AM   #22
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re: My First Lighting Class; or How I Learned to Light

gary-

thank you for the question.

i have indeed learned much at the various lighting seminars i have attended.

lighting seminars are often in two categories: pros sharing and companies demo-ing new products.

the new product demos are mostly dog and pony shows but being in nyc i have access to many so i don't mind "wasting" a few hours to listen and watch a new light being put through it's capabilities. these gatherings are always free to attend.

the pro sessions i have attended are fee based. in order for me to allow myself to spend time and money at an event, i want to walk away with one (at least) kernal of knowledge that i did not have before that day.

frankly, i think my standard is rather low. but i attend these seminars to keep sharp my ability to listen/see/learn from others so i can translate those lessons to my own efforts.

i have learned much in the near 30 years i have been making films.

i know that i have much to learn in my film-making years ahead.

ymmv.

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions
nyc
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