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Old September 7th, 2008, 01:20 AM   #1
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Dual Layer DVD

I've been doing video for a number of years and never knew about them until recently. Looks like the media is more expensive and they take longer to burn but twice the amount of capacity is very nice. Anyone use them and if so what has your experience been? Compatibility issues or longevity or burning problems?
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Old September 7th, 2008, 06:46 PM   #2
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Been around for a few years. I have used them very infrequently without problems but others describe them as so fraught with unreliability that they wouldn't use them if there was a gun put to their head. I haven't used them in a year.

Problem for me is that I don't think there's any printable version of D/L media. There might be, but I just don't know where to get it.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 03:14 AM   #3
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I would describe them as so fraught with unreliability that I wouldn't use them if there was a gun put to my head. :-)

A twin (single-layer) DVD set has so many advantages by comparison, especially if for delivery to the public, with their unknown playback systems, and you DON'T want the hassle of "it doesn't play" or "it keeps skipping".

I believe Verbatim do printable versions.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 04:18 AM   #4
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I think the verbatim dual layer discs are fairly reliable and are as compatable as you will ever get however it would be a brave person who produced 500 odd discs at 36 for 25 only to discovered people had problems playing them. Ive often been close to trying it as the shows i film often run up to 3 hrs in length but i have always chickened out and gone the two disc box set route as by using TY watershield -r discs ive had zero rejections (so far).
Changing the subject slightly it seems incredible to me that people are having a go at bluray (on some forums)over player compatability with BD-r when we are still discussing how to get dvd-r/dvd+r to play on all standalone players.
personaly I think bluray is much further ahead than dvd was at a similar point in its life and ive had almost zero problems producing bd-r discs that play( and i can fit 3 hrs on a disc)..now all we need is cheap media and players.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 03:33 PM   #5
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I was reading some where that most commercial movie use Dual Layer, so I was thinking if its good enough for them then why not for us? But I've heard that commercial dvds are created using a different process, pressing them I can't see that making them more compatible but maybe more reliable without burning errors from consumer burners.

I think I might get some and experiment, because I often have projects such as dance recitals or weddings that can go over 2hrs and its more time consuming for me to try to edit it down to fit or the extra cost, time of burning two dvds, the packaging, and shipping.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 10:10 PM   #6
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I tried them a few years ago but had numerous client playback problems. To alleviate the issues, I simply just use more than one 4.7G disc instead.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 01:33 AM   #7
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[QUOTE=Pete Cofran;930973]I was reading some where that most commercial movie use Dual Layer, so I was thinking if its good enough for them then why not for us? But I've heard that commercial dvds are created using a different process, pressing them I can't see that making them more compatible but maybe more reliable without burning errors from consumer burners.

QUOTE]

hi Pete, i think i am right in saying that the problem with DVD-R and DVD DL-R discs is that instead of being pressed from a glass master the image is burnt onto a dye layer and depending on the quality this dye this then depends on how reflective the layer is.
with dual or double layer discs you then have to have two dye layers.
this is why you cant burn discs at the same max bit rate as commercially pressed discs without players skipping.(someone please correct me if im wrong).
I also believe that DVD-R /DVD+R and then DVD DL etc were never part of the original spec for dvd players ..so although modern players should play them all fine not all will and unfortunately some people play dvds on the strangest or oldest things.
check out this usefull site and see the problems players have with dl discs (hope its ok to link to this site)
DVD Player and Blu-ray Player Compatibility List
you can also check out media compatability ...interesting reading..cheers john
oh yeh forgot to mention the reason for greater compatability with commercial discs is because the players see them as DVD ROM (again please correct me if wrong here) thats why lots of people buy DVD+r and set the book type as DVDROM this works for DL too but Im still not confident enough to produce lots of them.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 02:37 PM   #8
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Its hard to find definitive answers on the subject. I've read DVD+DL is more compatible than DVD-DL and vise versus. When it switches to the second layer it causes a long delay that can make it appear to be defective. DVDSP allows you to control where the switch happens so its not in the middle of a movie.

One thing that is clear is that there are compatibility issues with old players. So I can see why many have decided to stay away from DL to avoid the head aches associated with them.

DVD+R DL - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
DVD-R DL - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old September 9th, 2008, 03:03 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Pete Cofran View Post
I was reading some where that most commercial movie use Dual Layer, so I was thinking if its good enough for them then why not for us?
Because they're replicated (pressed), not duplicated (burnt).
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Old September 9th, 2008, 08:18 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Tripp Woelfel View Post
.Problem for me is that I don't think there's any printable version of D/L media. There might be, but I just don't know where to get it.
Try looking at Discmakers.com

They're a bit on the expensive side at $1.29 per disc, but they are printable and the least expensive I could find.

As far as compatibility goes, I just sent out a couple dozen of these DL-DVDs about a week ago. I'll keep my fingers crossed, but I haven't heard any complaints or issues about them not playing. However, I printed a warning on the case label and on the disc itself stating that it may not play in all DVD players. I tested my master disc in as many DVD players as I could find. For the most part, I've found that any DVD player less than 2 years old seems to play these perfectly fine, as do all computer DVD drives. I only ran into problems on DVD players that were 5 years old or older.
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Old September 10th, 2008, 06:31 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Shawn McCalip View Post
As far as compatibility goes, I just sent out a couple dozen of these DL-DVDs about a week ago. I'll keep my fingers crossed, but I haven't heard any complaints or issues about them not playing. However, I printed a warning on the case label and on the disc itself stating that it may not play in all DVD players. I tested my master disc in as many DVD players as I could find. For the most part, I've found that any DVD player less than 2 years old seems to play these perfectly fine, as do all computer DVD drives. I only ran into problems on DVD players that were 5 years old or older.
I recently shot a concert at my church.
So far I've made close to a hundred disks.

The first batch were 25 TDK brand DVD+R DL. I got lots of complaints.
The 1-to-8 disk copier machine I used to burn them had an option to burn then compare, which is what I did. So I know all the disks going out were 100% readable.

One lady brought her disk back to me, telling me exactly were it started to skip.
So I took it home, stuck it in my home player, a 5+ year old Sony 5 disk carousel player and...it played just fine.

In any case, I went to DVD-R disks, extra compression of the video be damned.
The complaints have gone to zero.

My own opinion is that after the DVD-R/+R fiasco of the 1990's, the computer drive manufacturer's got the memo about needing to support universal compatibility. The player manufacturer's didn't. My mom and an Aunt+Uncle have players newer than mine. If I make a DVD-R disk it will play in one, but not the other. And if I make a DVD+R disk, the situation is exactly reversed.

And I think there is enough variation in media from different manufacturer's that again, you just can't ever be 100% certain that you won't have problems at the customer's end. You don't have to look around very long to find that many swear by some media manufacturer's whereas others get sworn at. And you add in the fact that a Dual Layer disk by definition is a more complicated structure, and the compatibility problems multiply.

Which, to say the least, greatly devalues the potential benefits of Dual Layer.
Increasingly, I make the Dual layer version for myself and Single Layer for everyone else.

Last edited by Bill Koehler; September 10th, 2008 at 06:34 AM. Reason: Formatting
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Old September 10th, 2008, 07:24 AM   #12
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hi Bill, from my own experience if you want to use DL discs may i suggest you use verbatim +r discs as these are definately the best DL you can buy (if you can get them as there was a shortage a while ago here in the uk)also setting the layer break correctly is essential and set the book type to DVD Rom.
interestingly I never use any dvd media other than TY watershield arguably the best media you can buy but TY dont seem to make DL discs perhaps they think its not worth the trouble.
cheers john
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Old September 10th, 2008, 09:39 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Shawn McCalip View Post
Try looking at Discmakers.com
They're not a manufacturer, rather they are primarily a replication house. Although they should know their disks, there might be cheaper sources.

There are ways of identifying the media's manufacturer but I can't tell you how. You might try VideoHelp.com - Forum, Guides, Tools and hardware lists. If you can find the manufacturer, you might be able to find another source from manufacturer's retailer link page on their Web site.
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Old September 10th, 2008, 09:42 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Bill Koehler View Post
The first batch were 25 TDK brand DVD+R DL. I got lots of complaints.
Not surprised. I won't use anything but Verbatim or TY.

I got scars. You want to see 'em?
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Old September 11th, 2008, 12:02 AM   #15
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I got scars. You want to see 'em?
Uhhh...there's a lot of things in this world I really don't need to know.... ;-)
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