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Old May 17th, 2009, 11:56 PM   #16
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16:9 to 4:3

Hi,

I figured out the problem I stated in the last message. It is in Encore as an option/setting called Interprete Footage. Encore was originally interpreting the footage as 4:3. As soon as I changed this setting to 16:9 the DVD was written in the Widescreen format. I also changed the Pixel aspect ratio to 16:9 widescreen. I think I will go back and make this video in the 4:3 format.

I still have Jaggies/Diagonal problem showing up in all the lines of the Tennis court. I have the same problem around the edges of the players but this is much less noticeable. The slow mo parts are really smooth, though. Maybe it is in the Encore AVI to Mpeg2 conversion that is not very good. I don't know. Other than that the DVD looks great. What do you think?

John Gerard
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Old May 18th, 2009, 04:37 AM   #17
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720x480 (NTSC) or 720x576 (PAL) is normally 4:3 aspect ratio, you are right.
You have to tell the authoring tool (eg. Encore) to set to 16:9 / widescreen and to show it as "letterboxed" on 4:3 TVs.

The secret is: both, 4:3 and 16:9 have the same resolution 720x480 / 720x576, but 16:9 is safed "anamorphic". This means it looks squeezed (Egg-heads) when the medium is not set to 16:9. If it is set, then the TV streches the image horicontally to correct 16:9 widescreen.

There is no further cropping/manipulation of the image.
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Old May 18th, 2009, 04:48 AM   #18
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To your second question: yes, Adobe CS3/CS4 does no good job in downscaling to DVD-resolution. I use a very complex workflow with interims-lossless-avi, VirtualDub/AviSynth and TMPGEnc for encoding.
There are lots of threads in this forums about this topics...
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Old May 18th, 2009, 10:59 AM   #19
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Jaggies

Hi,

I keep forgetting that I can post pics on this site. The following pics will explain what I am experiencing when it comes to Jaggie or the diagonal problem. The first photo was exported from Premiere Pro CS3 looks correct no Jaggies. If you enlarge the first photo full screen you will see that there is pretty much no jaggies or very little. The photo at the smaller size look to me like there are jaggies but no jaggies in Premiere Pro.The original photo was in 1440x1080i. The second photo I took a screen shot of my computer screen of the video in Encore CS3 after exporting the Video from Premiere Pro to VirtualDub using Debug fameserver. This shows the correct amount of jaggies. I then imported the saved avi file from Virtualdub to Encore. I used the following filters in Videodub...

Deinterlace using Blend field method.
Resize to Absolute 720x480, Aspect Ratio Disabled, using Lanczos3
Sharpen by 10

I took this info from one of the messages on this board. I don't remember the persons name to give him credit. It was under the heading "HD to SD DVD interlace questions."

At some point in the process of creating the final DVD I set the Field order to Lower first. The problem shows up on the DVD, also. Although, the problem fades in and out so I think not every frame might be having this problem or frames are being blended together to cut down on some of this issue. Deinterlacing make the Slow mo parts look great.

Thanks,

John Gerard
Attached Thumbnails
HD to SD DVD interlace questions-example-no-jaggies-premiere.jpg   HD to SD DVD interlace questions-example-jaggies-encor.jpg  

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Old May 19th, 2009, 03:33 AM   #20
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It was me who suggested that workflow.

Does the preview in Virtual Dub display those jagged edges on the white lines? It does appear as if something went wrong (almost like a field reversal before deinterlacing). Is it possible for you to send me a 3 to 5 second clip of the original 1440x1080 footage so I can test it on my end?

you can send me an email: jon (at) precomposed.com
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 01:39 PM   #21
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Jaggies

Hi Jon,

As I talked about in my other note I tried your steps up to and including step #4. All went well once I figured out the concept of frameserving. I still get Jaggies in the final output on DVD everything else looks great. I assume I am converting the footage to MPG2 using the Encore codecs by importing the resulting AVI file into Encode CS3. So, will it eliminate the Jaggies problem if I use another program as you suggest in step 5 or is this related to a different problem such as field order. I have yet to try a progressive scan version of my video to see what that looks like.

Thanks for the information,

John Gerard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Geddes View Post
My Workflow has excellent results:

1) Export your HD project out of Premiere using Debugmode Frameserver

2) Open the frameserved file in Virtual Dub, and apply these filters in this order:

- Deinterlace using blend fields method
- Resize to absolute: 720x480, Aspect Ratio Disabled, using Lanczos3 method
- Sharpen by 10

3) Save this file out of Virtual Dub as AVI.

4) Turn off Frameserver

5) Open new avi in ProCoder or TMPGEnc and encode to mpeg2, widescreen aspect ratio, using VBR 2 Pass, minimum bitrate: 1.5 mbps, target bitrate: (depends on how much footage you have, set to 7 if you have less than 90 minutes for a single layer disc), max bitrate: 8 mbps

6) Import m2v/ac3 into authoring app of your choice.

The above method yields extremely good quality results, far superior to anything adobe products or final cut studio is capable of producing... and virtual dub is free! You will be impressed. The most important part is what virtual dub does in the resizing process. If your source footage is progressive from premiere, you will want to leave out the deinterlace step. Make sure you export in the full HD resolution out of premiere, keeping it the same size as the source footage, and make sure you don't have Recompress checked.
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 01:53 PM   #22
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Jaggies

I will try to send you the clip today or tomorrow. How and were should I send/post the clip? I am going to cut it out of the AVI file produced from VirtualDub assuming that what you are after?

Thanks,
John Gerard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Geddes View Post
It was me who suggested that workflow.

Does the preview in Virtual Dub display those jagged edges on the white lines? It does appear as if something went wrong (almost like a field reversal before deinterlacing). Is it possible for you to send me a 3 to 5 second clip of the original 1440x1080 footage so I can test it on my end?

you can send me an email: jon (at) precomposed.com
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Old May 26th, 2009, 11:27 AM   #23
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Having a clip of the original mpeg format would be better, before it goes out of Premiere through the frameserver. Maybe cut a small clip from the timeline, apply an adobe color correction filter (but don't change the colors), and render it. Now in your Adobe Premiere Preview folder, you should see the clip. Send me an email and let me know how big it is, maybe you can just email it.
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Old May 31st, 2009, 02:52 AM   #24
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Response:

I have just reviewed your clip, and was able to deinterlace/resize flawlessly without those anomalies you experienced.

My guess as to why you had issues is that Premiere's Keyframe and Rendering settings on your export were set to Lower Field First, when it should be Upper Field First for HDV footage.

I am attaching my results to this message.
Attached Thumbnails
HD to SD DVD interlace questions-sample.jpg  
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Old December 20th, 2009, 03:20 PM   #25
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problem exporting PP footage

Hi Jon,

You helped me before with setting up a good HDV to SD workflow in Premiere Pro before. I am having a really hard time figuring out this late issue. I wondered if you have any thoughts or anyone else reading this message. Here is the problem.

Mainly I have been shooting in all HDV with my Sony FX7. I output as you suggested by using Virtualdub and framserver by adding these filters...

Deinterlace
Resize
Sharpen

This gives me great results most of the time. On occasion the output AVI file comes out where the Audio is all screwed up. The best way I can explain it is that the audio bumps along or cuts in and out, sort of issue. This starts at the very beginning of the AVI file. Usually if I re-encode the file it is OK the second time.
My current project is as follows.....
Main part is DV footage that I captured from my FX-7.
I imported 2 short clips from another project that is HDV footage.
The Premier Pro CS3 project is a SD project.

I was able to output this combined footage for a few sequences as separate AVI files and everything was running Ok. PP did crash a few times but this is normal for me. I just restart the project and usually all is well. I just keep saving a lot. The project runs really great in the PP timeline, no problems at all. Then it seen that Premiere or Virtualdub or my computer did not like something. Now the next sequence or any other sequence will not export correctly. I tried creating a few tests by creating a new project and importing a one 3 clip long HDV sequence and then exporting it in Virtualdub. I can not get it to work correctly. When I play back the AVI file in WMP sometimes it is so bad that the Audio as well as the video just bumps along at about 10 FPS or so, guestimating. It appears like my computer has a problem keeping up the streaming speed during export. I am trying right now an SD only sample to see if this is a problem only with the HDV footage. I also, tried exporting the footage using Microsoft uncompressed AVI just to see if I could get the project done but I get the same problem in that AVI file as well. It does not appear that the Audio is out of sync just choppy,and or video but mainly the audio which has a problem. Outputting to virtualdub I have PP write an audio signpost PCM file but I always do this with no problems in the past. I am now also checking my computer for viruses just to see if something unexplained like that was going on.

Thanks for your help,

John Gerard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Geddes View Post
My Workflow has excellent results:

1) Export your HD project out of Premiere using Debugmode Frameserver

2) Open the frameserved file in Virtual Dub, and apply these filters in this order:

- Deinterlace using blend fields method
- Resize to absolute: 720x480, Aspect Ratio Disabled, using Lanczos3 method
- Sharpen by 10

3) Save this file out of Virtual Dub as AVI.

4) Turn off Frameserver

5) Open new avi in ProCoder or TMPGEnc and encode to mpeg2, widescreen aspect ratio, using VBR 2 Pass, minimum bitrate: 1.5 mbps, target bitrate: (depends on how much footage you have, set to 7 if you have less than 90 minutes for a single layer disc), max bitrate: 8 mbps

6) Import m2v/ac3 into authoring app of your choice.

The above method yields extremely good quality results, far superior to anything adobe products or final cut studio is capable of producing... and virtual dub is free! You will be impressed. The most important part is what virtual dub does in the resizing process. If your source footage is progressive from premiere, you will want to leave out the deinterlace step. Make sure you export in the full HD resolution out of premiere, keeping it the same size as the source footage, and make sure you don't have Recompress checked.
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