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Old May 9th, 2004, 02:10 PM   #1
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DVD Copy Protection

Recently I made a corporate training video for a client and all went perfectly well until they mentioned that they require 250 copies. I quoted my rates but a week later I noticed that they had purchaced a DVD writer for their office with the intention of copying my work.

I use Ulead DVD Workshop 2 with a built in Macrovision 1,2 and 3 encoder. Obviously this is fine for scambling analogue outputs from DVD players to video decks or standalone DVD recorders but what of disk to disk copying using their software that came with their new DVD recorder on the PC. Is it possible to block this type of copying? I have heard of somthing that makes the size of the files larger than can actually fit on a disk (4,7Gb). Do any other DVD authoring packages offer some encryption that might be of use to me.

Thanks
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Old May 9th, 2004, 03:35 PM   #2
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Nothing will prevent direct file copying of your DVD if you put it on DVD-R. Your remotest hope is to have the discs replicated and include CSS copy protection, but this is essentially worthless since it's been broken for many years. Unfortunately there's nothing else you can do, short of making them agree even more explicitly than the copyright law itself would demand that they don't make copies and if they do sue them.
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Old May 10th, 2004, 04:07 AM   #3
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Yeah you'll need to replicate and add CSS & Macrovision as mentioned. You'll need to submit the project on DLT also and you're looking at 500+ units min.

Yes making a dvd-9 will also help as if they want to copy the disc they will have to rip it, re-encode it and re-author it so they can copy it! That's too much hassle for some people and the loss of quality is not acceptable sometimes,

-Jake
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Old May 10th, 2004, 08:08 PM   #4
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For future reference, I suppose that one could simply make a DVD-R master and scratch the outer tracks. I suspect that the copying program would abort when it encountered this error. CRC errors on old CD-Rs have stopped me.
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Old May 11th, 2004, 11:31 AM   #5
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Basically you can't protect it. But if you know they are going to
copy it perhaps there are legal steps you can take.
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Old May 11th, 2004, 12:19 PM   #6
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Assuming that you are primarily a video production service...

My question would be: How important is the duplication aspect of your business? Is it a main part of the package you sell, or is it just a little bit of gravy on top of your video production services?

It sounds like since you produced the entire training video for them, then production is the main part of your business -- and I assume you charge accordingly. If so, I don't know that I would worry too much about the duplication aspect. Besides, this sounds like something that could fall under work-for-hire, in which case they might have the rights to everything you produced anyway. Think about what you would do (and charge) if you were only a production service, didn't own a DVD duplicator, and they were going to have to go elsewhere to duplicate the discs anyway.

I don't mean to turn this into a Taking Care of Business thread, but the business side of it seemed to crop up. I'd say let them try and make 250 copies with the (I bet) cheap, bottom of the line DVD burner they bought -- when they come back to you begging for help, you can tell 'em that your prices just went up!
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Old May 11th, 2004, 01:19 PM   #7
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Guys thanks for your replies. It will obviously make business sense to load the production costs in this case as John has suggested.

I know that whatever encryption method is used, it will be bypassed in some way or another but I suppose my main aim would probably be to stop regular clients (not supadupa hackers) from copying my work.

Once again, thanks for the replies... I will certainly have a different approach fto future work!
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Old May 11th, 2004, 01:57 PM   #8
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As Jake mentioned DVD-9 is a great way to deter copying. But it winds up costing about $1500 for a minimum order of 1000. So it's only worthwhile if you're planning on selling more than 200 copies or so, which you are, so it might be worth it.

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Old May 11th, 2004, 03:08 PM   #9
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The problem is not that the copying tools are only for people in
the know these days. Someone I know who doesn't know
anything at all about computers proudly proclaimed he copied
a few DVD's the other week. The tool came with some simple
computer magazine with included instructions. It was just an
easy wizard based program with a few steps. Took no longer
than 5 minutes to setup and away it went.

So you must decide whether getting your discs stamped,
duplicated and CSS (encrypted) encoded is worth the money.
A lot of these programs allow very easy down-encoding for
movies larger than 4.5 GB as well.

I personally don't think any of these will help for your time and
money. I'm not sure what would be the best way to proceed...
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Old May 12th, 2004, 03:58 AM   #10
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I think it's worth it. Normally it will stop the normal people. Those type of apps and guides aren't going to be in that mag every month. If you do a dvd-9 then the encoding to dvd-5 means lower quality.

I know there are loads of tools and guides and I know that most folks on the boards can find them but I just think the numbers of people that would actually do it are far less than buyers.

If you're going to replication then it's no extra cost for CSS, all you have to do is check it in the authoring app and write to DLT(or dvd-r(A). Macrovison, you have to pay per unit but it isn't much and with the cost of dvd's coming further and futher down it's not too hard to factor into the cost.

Yeah if you are doing a dvd-r then the choice isn't there. Also if you aren't doing the units then the choice isn't there but if you are I'd say it's worth it. IMHO,

Jake
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Old May 12th, 2004, 06:10 AM   #11
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If you are doing larger batches with mastering & duplications
then sure, it's a small price to pay to add it. BUT, I was under
the impression it was just for a handfull of copies and thus it
changes to a very big investment suddenly.

Are you sure CSS doesn't add licensing costs? I was under the
impression that you did have to pay licensing fees to be able
to use it (just as Macrovision as you pointed out).
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Old May 12th, 2004, 06:16 AM   #12
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The rep house pay for both aswell. But this end we only have to pay for Macrovision which is unit by unit and the cost goes down the more you'll ship, as always!

Jake
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Old May 12th, 2004, 06:51 AM   #13
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Some replicators do charge extra for CSS. It depends on the place.

If you use DVD-9 though why bother with CSS? Anyone can easily crack CSS with a simple freeware app. It's more complicated to re-encode the video to fit on DVD-R.
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Old May 12th, 2004, 06:59 AM   #14
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Yep there are some that do but that is because they probably don't have a licence. They outsource the job and need to charge extra! All the bigger companines will have a licence.

CSS on dvd-9 cause you wont be able to drag the build to HD and use it to watch or import Title Sets etc unless you strip it of course.

Jake
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Old May 12th, 2004, 07:59 AM   #15
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umm.. regarldess of the copy protection, there are programs like DVDShrink beta3 which rip the dvd in less than an hour and let u burn with nero.

Ive also considered puttin copyprotection on my work, but to this day, the effort is not worth it..
i jstu charge a nominal fee which is comparable to retail costs.

I also get them to sign a contract strictly stating that no duplication will occur without written consent on my business letterhead.
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