DVD not as good as DV at DVinfo.net

Chris Gray · June 3rd, 2004, 07:52 AM

I have Pinnacle Studio 8 SE, but a friend has Nero DVD and notices the same thing - even at the highest quality setting, on the finished DVD there is added video noise. Not a huge amount, but enough to be seen, especially in scenes that are poorly lit. The result is that DVDs look more like good quality Super-VHS, a far cry from the quality seen on most commercial DVDs.

Is this a factor of the software? Do we just have to live with video noise generated by consumer-level MPEG encoders?

I was hoping to see no degredation compared to the DV master.

Rob Lohman · June 3rd, 2004, 12:54 PM

What settings are you using? Do those encoders support
VBR encoding?

Both Vegas and Premiere seem to come with pretty good
encoders these days. But for the top of the line check these out:

1. Canopus ProCoder (Express). Probably the best. Medium/cheap price

2. CCE. Also one of the best. Expensive

3. TMPGEnc. Pretty good and cheap

You can download demo's for each if I remember correctly.

Quality depends largely on the quality of your source, the
quality of the encoder and your settings. Two-pass VBR is usually
better than CBR encoding for example.

DVD is highly compressed and you will see the effects of this
more easily on a computer monitor then you will on a TV. Always
watch on where the most people are going to watch it.

With the right tools, source footage and settings you should be
able to make very good DVD's.

Hollywood has special encoders that you can exactly tell where
to put the bits and is (can be) a very involved process. They are
still ahead of us, but not by much if your source footage is up to
spec.

Keep in mind that poorly lit scenes are one of the hardest things
(and sharp lines) to encode with MPEG and DV.

Michael Wisniewski · June 3rd, 2004, 03:04 PM

Chris,

What camera did you use?

Are you viewing the original video - on a TV or a computer monitor?

Chris Gray · June 3rd, 2004, 03:55 PM

I use a sony Digital 8 DCR-TRV720. My friend uses a Sony VX1000. My D8 looks okay, especially with good lighting. His VX1000 is of course a couple of notches better.

The camcorder isn't the problem... both of us have noticed a slight degradation in picture quality when viewing the DVD versus camcorder hookup on our respective TVs, via the S-video jack.

The products we've been using (Nero, Pinnacle Studio) don't allow for variable bit rate, so could that be a cause?

Dan Euritt · June 3rd, 2004, 10:26 PM

in general, you shouldn't see much picture degredation at all, when going from dv to dvd.

in addition to all the other suggestions, take a look at the mainconcept mpeg encoder... overall, it's one of the best combo's of picture quality and ease of use that you will find.

George Ellis · June 4th, 2004, 10:27 AM

Chris, how long is the video? Studio drops its CBR rate to match the size if it is over an hour. You would then drop below 6000kbs.

Also, did you capture in full quality mode or preview mode? Just checking as you probably did full quality.

Chris Gray · June 6th, 2004, 04:13 PM

I captured in full quality... I tried to max out everything in order to get the best possible result, since the movie was only 33 minutes.

It's probably a function of the low-end software. I might try some of the suggestions given, plus I'm expecting Media Studio Pro 7 in the mail any day now (which has a DVD authoring module built in).

June 3rd, 2004, 07:52 AM	#1
Chris Gray New Boot Join Date: May 2004 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 10	DVD not as good as DV I have Pinnacle Studio 8 SE, but a friend has Nero DVD and notices the same thing - even at the highest quality setting, on the finished DVD there is added video noise. Not a huge amount, but enough to be seen, especially in scenes that are poorly lit. The result is that DVDs look more like good quality Super-VHS, a far cry from the quality seen on most commercial DVDs. Is this a factor of the software? Do we just have to live with video noise generated by consumer-level MPEG encoders? I was hoping to see no degredation compared to the DV master.

June 3rd, 2004, 12:54 PM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	What settings are you using? Do those encoders support VBR encoding? Both Vegas and Premiere seem to come with pretty good encoders these days. But for the top of the line check these out: 1. Canopus ProCoder (Express). Probably the best. Medium/cheap price 2. CCE. Also one of the best. Expensive 3. TMPGEnc. Pretty good and cheap You can download demo's for each if I remember correctly. Quality depends largely on the quality of your source, the quality of the encoder and your settings. Two-pass VBR is usually better than CBR encoding for example. DVD is highly compressed and you will see the effects of this more easily on a computer monitor then you will on a TV. Always watch on where the most people are going to watch it. With the right tools, source footage and settings you should be able to make very good DVD's. Hollywood has special encoders that you can exactly tell where to put the bits and is (can be) a very involved process. They are still ahead of us, but not by much if your source footage is up to spec. Keep in mind that poorly lit scenes are one of the hardest things (and sharp lines) to encode with MPEG and DV. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 3rd, 2004, 03:04 PM	#3
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	Chris, What camera did you use? Are you viewing the original video - on a TV or a computer monitor?

June 3rd, 2004, 03:55 PM	#4
Chris Gray New Boot Join Date: May 2004 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 10	I use a sony Digital 8 DCR-TRV720. My friend uses a Sony VX1000. My D8 looks okay, especially with good lighting. His VX1000 is of course a couple of notches better. The camcorder isn't the problem... both of us have noticed a slight degradation in picture quality when viewing the DVD versus camcorder hookup on our respective TVs, via the S-video jack. The products we've been using (Nero, Pinnacle Studio) don't allow for variable bit rate, so could that be a cause?

June 3rd, 2004, 10:26 PM	#5
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	in general, you shouldn't see much picture degredation at all, when going from dv to dvd. in addition to all the other suggestions, take a look at the mainconcept mpeg encoder... overall, it's one of the best combo's of picture quality and ease of use that you will find.

June 4th, 2004, 10:27 AM	#6
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	Chris, how long is the video? Studio drops its CBR rate to match the size if it is over an hour. You would then drop below 6000kbs. Also, did you capture in full quality mode or preview mode? Just checking as you probably did full quality.

June 6th, 2004, 04:13 PM	#7
Chris Gray New Boot Join Date: May 2004 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 10	I captured in full quality... I tried to max out everything in order to get the best possible result, since the movie was only 33 minutes. It's probably a function of the low-end software. I might try some of the suggestions given, plus I'm expecting Media Studio Pro 7 in the mail any day now (which has a DVD authoring module built in).