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Old September 3rd, 2004, 02:18 PM   #1
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Not enough space on DVD

First of all, thank you in advance for anything you can offer. I am a birth videographer in Florida and have found that for long births, I have tons of footage. I have always limited myself to one hour and one half for a DVD. However, when I edited a friends analog video and transferred it to DVD, my editing software (Studio 9) stated there was not enough disc space. Is it the software? Are there discs that can hold more than 4.7 GB for a DVD R/RW? Does an analog conversion just take up more space? Is there anything I can try to compress it? My software offers MPEG-2 and a DV output, should I try the former?

Thanks
Sharonda
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Old September 3rd, 2004, 04:34 PM   #2
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Sharonda,

They do make duel layer dvds, but I would personally wait untill they have been out a bit longer before jumping into it, duel layer is fairly new technology. Im not sure about your dvd burning software, because I dont use it, but in encore you have total control over compression(bit budgeting). I would recommend somthing along the lines of a VBR(vairable bit rate) two pass, with a target of about 4 or 5 a second. Anyone want to add........


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Old September 3rd, 2004, 04:39 PM   #3
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BTW- How big did the software say the file was?
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Old September 3rd, 2004, 09:44 PM   #4
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sharonda,

please look at more info on this at dvdrhelp.com, this is a common issue that is easily remedied.

For a quick heads up, once you edit your footage with say Adobe Premier, export to avi and run the file thru the TMPGEnc software program, you will need to register it to get the full functionality.

In this program you can lower the bitstream to 4mbps which will allow 2 hours on a standard 1 layer dvd. Also this will allow you the option of downgrading the audio to 384kbps as opposed to the standard avi 1.5 mpbs which is a space hog.

Finally, if you have Adobe Premier Pro you can export the avi or mpg ready for dvd by setting a custom bit rate on export.

Hope this helped...
Miguel
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Old September 4th, 2004, 06:34 PM   #5
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Thanx

I appreciate the help with my dilema. I will attempt some of the suggestions. I will see the cost of some of the software listed to see if it is within my budget.

Sharonda
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Old September 5th, 2004, 06:19 AM   #6
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Just to clear up some things:

1) DVD can be MPEG2 and MPEG1 with the first being used 99.99% of the time if not 100%. DVD-Video cannot hold DV or any other format. DVD-Data can (like a CD recordable), but that isn't playable on a DVD player

2) Quality and efficiency of your encoding depends on your MPEG2 encoder. TMPGEnc is a very cheap and good encoder. Canopus ProCoder is even better.

3) You will have to fit your movie in the 4.5 GB available and the only way to do this is to lower the bitrate to get there. Also if you can use variable bitrate instead of constant bitrate.

Lastly encoding footage for a DVD is an artform. Takes a while
to master if you truly want impressive results and the most
efficient encoding at a given quality level.
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Old September 20th, 2004, 11:09 PM   #7
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Rob, an important question... like the original post, I have too large a file. However, it was shot 24pA on the DVX, and encoded mpeg2 (Vegas 5 to DVDA, inc. ac3 for audio), which has rendered an absolutely stunning (breathtaking in places, actually... can't believe it) look. Which I don't want to lose. I'm in the mad rush of getting this laid off for Sundance, soooo...

...while people advise against the double layer drives as they're so new, it seems like in my case, it's worth a shot, to save all that information that has given me such a beautiful picture. Agree? Disagree? I'm asking cuz you've never steered me wrong yet, and if ever I needed advice I can count on, it's now. Pressures on, guy. ;-)

Marcia

(Seriously, I realize all anybody has is a best guess, but that's all I've got to go with at the moment... course, I'm a little concerned about whether there will be any issues with other DVD players reading it.)
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Old September 21st, 2004, 04:51 AM   #8
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I'll try my best to not let you down <g> Heh.

Basically you have 3 options in my opinion.

1. burn it to a dual-layer DVD if you can (not sure what software supports this yet)

2. re-compress to a single layer DVD, this should not be too much trouble (quality wise) if the file isn't that much over 4.5 GB

3. re-compress to two single layer DVD's (splitting your movie up). This should yield the best quality and compatibility level, but does need a disc switch in the middle of the movie. Whether this is acceptable, I don't know.

If you have the time I would do all three options. Burn a DL disc,
a reduced bitrate single disc single layer movie and a split version
across two discs. Can't go wrong with that approach.

In my opinion dual-layer is just too new. I doubt you will have
the programs to actually complete a workflow in this format and
then it is basically completely unknown how compatible it really
is (in the real world) with all the players.

For that reason I would not take the risk of just showing up with
a DL disc. I would go with option 2 first. Then if I have time do
option 3 and then lastly option 1.

This workflow also makes sure that you at least have a disc ready
before you start investing time in research to split your movie over
multiple discs and encode to dual-layer.

Lastly I wish you all the luck with your project and Sundance!
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Old September 24th, 2004, 09:08 PM   #9
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Rob, thought I'd take a moment to follow up, now that I can breathe again. Hand delivered my documentary to Sundance yesterday, so for better or worse, the die is cast. At least for this round. :-) Now, before the next layoff (after the next edit, of course) and the rest of the festival curcuit, I want to figure the above mess out.

What I ended up doing was laying off to two miniDV tapes, breaking the show up at a handy dissolve to black that was almost exactly at the one hour mark. I then took it to a guy I know who printed it to DVD with a real time player, cutting the two tapes back together pretty seamlessly. He timed the dissolve to/from black based on the timecode I'd given him (from my timeline). And it worked great. Course, it went into the analog environment his way, which I'd like to avoid.

But the thing is, now I'm really curious (as I seek out my solution), as to what you think gives me:

a) the highest quality image; and
b) the most acceptable presentation for delivery, as I ready to send our more copies.

Keep in mind it's going to festival and studio types to consider. I don't have the $$ for fancy packaging. All I have is a story with heart that I want to get to them in the best looking form possible. With that said...

Options, as I see it: (eliminating the double layer drive above)

1. compress the project more, as you suggest above, though it came out 5.6 gigs, so that seems like it'll take a lot of compression;

2. go with two DVD disks as you also suggest above (now that I have the time to make menus and such) which retains the pristine mpeg 2; or

3. burn it to DVD straight from the timeline in a print to tape to my external Pioneer DVD recorder, via firewire. Aparently it just cares about time that way, not file size, not unlike the pricey gear the guy has who did my last minute lay off.

This last option I just came up with today, after wandering across a Pioneer DVR-210s at Costco, cheap, and thought I'd give it a try just on the off chance that it might work. And it did, at least as far as I can tell. Haven't had the time to do any serious comparisons yet.

But my PC reads it as a tape deck, and Vegas happily prints right to it as if it were a camcorder, going firewire straight to DVD. So the million dollar question is... am I losing anything if I do it this way? It remains in the digital environment, doesn't it? Is it going to look as good/worse/better than mpeg2 that has the compression lowered until it all fits on one disk (5.6 mushed to 4.5 gigs or whatever)? As good as mpeg 2 on two disks? Am I just crazy? Ok, forget that last question... I know the answer to that one. :-)

Family is waiting for me. Gotta run. Glad you're around these boards, Rob.

Ciao,
Marcia
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Old September 26th, 2004, 05:32 AM   #10
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Marcia,

Your going to make it tough on me eh, heh. How long is this
film actually?

Basically the best presentation and ease of use comes from a
single disc. For the following reasons:

1. it is just one disc, less chance someone looses half of your movie
2. no need to swap discs (which is not bad if there is a break in the movie anyway [restroom], otherwise probably highly annoying to the audience)

However, the downside (as you know) is quality. Whether it is
acceptible to you is the thing only you can answer. If your
external pioneer recorder can get your movie onto a single layer
4.5 GB DVD disc with good enough quality for you, then you
should be able to do the exact same thing on your PC.

What kind of encoding settings did you use to create the original
5.6 GB file?

I'm not sure how compatible that discs from your external
recorder is going to be, that is an important thing to consider.

Is it a movie only disc? If so you can (and probably should!)
not put a menu on the disc since it will not do anything. Just
start with the movie which most festivals will probably prefer
anyway (just pop the disc in and go).
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