DVD Studio Pro - Fitting everything on the disc, bitrate help? at DVinfo.net

Nathan Quattrini · October 7th, 2009, 10:57 AM

Ok here's the story. From what I know you should be able to fit 2 hours of video on a DVD without losing visual quality. My DVD is setup right now with Minimum 4.0 Mbps and Max 7.0 Mbps. I have 11 videos that equal 116 minutes all added up together. There are also some background images for the menus. Right now the disc meter shows I am at 5.8 gigs.

2 of the videos are used on 2 different tracks, but it is factoring that in to the disc size twice. I removed it from one track to test the theory and it dropped the disc size to 5.0 gigs. If its the same asset being used on 2 tracks, shouldn't it only need to factor it in once towards the DVD size? Should I assume the disc size right now is only 5.0 gigs and work on shaving off the .3 needed to get down to 4.7?

Also what is the general guideline for the video being of top quality? How low should I change some of the video settings to try and shave off some space. The videos are Animation Uncompressed videso from Premiere (I abandoned Adobe after a long process of Encore being hoorible software), so the audio tracks are also Quicktime Audio. I saw a few posts about doing something with the audio to also lessen the space it uses without losing quality. Is it still possible give the audio is part of the video mov?

Any help would be great, been working on this DVD for 4 months (since starting on encore, encore died, just rebuilt it all in DVD SP) so finishing it would be a huge weight off my shoulders. Thanks for your help!

Shaun Roemich · October 7th, 2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan Quattrini

If its the same asset being used on 2 tracks, shouldn't it only need to factor it in once towards the DVD size?

NOPE. When building tracks, you need to consider that each occurrence needs to be multiplexed. The way around this would be to use a call to the sequence in question at a chapter point or other index point that allows jumping, for example, using Stories. This MAY cause a slight playback delay on DVD though as the player needs to logically seek to the location of the next clip.

Perrone Ford · October 7th, 2009, 11:10 AM

Looks like you are going to have to correct some misconceptions first, and THEN reassess what you are trying to accomplish.

1. Putting 2 hours of uncompressed animation encoded video on to DVD without losing quality.

This is pure fallacy. You are going to lose a TON of quality. Even if you were putting 1 minute onto DVD. The conversion to Mpeg2 (the codec used for DVD) inherently includes a massive loss of quality from an uncompressed source. You may be tossing away 80% or more of your information in the conversion.

2. Encore is horrible software.

Encore can make some lovely disks if you know what you're doing. Just like any other pro level software. Though it would be best if you do the mpeg2 encode in a specialized program and then present that to the DVD recording software.

3. Compressing audio in smaller space without losing quality.

Compression, nearly by definition, will result in a loss of quality. Unless that compression is lossless. DVDs only function with a couple kinds of audio. One is lossless (the large audio files you refer to) the other is quite lossy. Take your pick.

Now beyond this, you have a maximum of 7.0 Mb/s as a bit rate. The DVD spec can go higher than this, so you are already capping the quality that can be achieved at less than ideal.

It seems the answer to your problem is as easy as using a dual-layer DVD. That way you'd have 8.5GB to play with instead of 4.7, and your issues would simply go away. Had you considered this option?

Nathan Quattrini · October 7th, 2009, 11:44 AM

I know compressing makes you lose quality. I was referring to visual quality on the DVD. The picture looking good on the TV ie. not blocky and really compressed looking. When you hit low bitrates it starts looking really awful.

Encore is not a user friendly software. CS3 for the Mac is also the first version on Mac and its chock full of bugs and random crashes. I created in 1 week on DVD studio what took me months on Encore. And in the end if I tried burning to disc the program simply shut down. Haven't had a crash yet with DVD SP. It just seems to be much more solid and coherent of a software package.

With the audio I am unsure. I keep seeing AC3 is a better format to have the audio pre-converted to than others because its high quality and low on space hogging. Trying to still figure out how to do that.

And yes, stories will help to cut out alot of the space I found out. It will prevent me from needing to take up twice the space with the same clip on different tracks. Working on it now.

Perrone Ford · October 7th, 2009, 11:50 AM

Oh,

You never indicated you were working on a Mac.

October 7th, 2009, 10:57 AM	#1
Nathan Quattrini Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Warwick, Rhode Island Posts: 740	DVD Studio Pro - Fitting everything on the disc, bitrate help? Ok here's the story. From what I know you should be able to fit 2 hours of video on a DVD without losing visual quality. My DVD is setup right now with Minimum 4.0 Mbps and Max 7.0 Mbps. I have 11 videos that equal 116 minutes all added up together. There are also some background images for the menus. Right now the disc meter shows I am at 5.8 gigs. 2 of the videos are used on 2 different tracks, but it is factoring that in to the disc size twice. I removed it from one track to test the theory and it dropped the disc size to 5.0 gigs. If its the same asset being used on 2 tracks, shouldn't it only need to factor it in once towards the DVD size? Should I assume the disc size right now is only 5.0 gigs and work on shaving off the .3 needed to get down to 4.7? Also what is the general guideline for the video being of top quality? How low should I change some of the video settings to try and shave off some space. The videos are Animation Uncompressed videso from Premiere (I abandoned Adobe after a long process of Encore being hoorible software), so the audio tracks are also Quicktime Audio. I saw a few posts about doing something with the audio to also lessen the space it uses without losing quality. Is it still possible give the audio is part of the video mov? Any help would be great, been working on this DVD for 4 months (since starting on encore, encore died, just rebuilt it all in DVD SP) so finishing it would be a huge weight off my shoulders. Thanks for your help! __________________ Cinematography Site

October 7th, 2009, 11:10 AM	#3
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Looks like you are going to have to correct some misconceptions first, and THEN reassess what you are trying to accomplish. 1. Putting 2 hours of uncompressed animation encoded video on to DVD without losing quality. This is pure fallacy. You are going to lose a TON of quality. Even if you were putting 1 minute onto DVD. The conversion to Mpeg2 (the codec used for DVD) inherently includes a massive loss of quality from an uncompressed source. You may be tossing away 80% or more of your information in the conversion. 2. Encore is horrible software. Encore can make some lovely disks if you know what you're doing. Just like any other pro level software. Though it would be best if you do the mpeg2 encode in a specialized program and then present that to the DVD recording software. 3. Compressing audio in smaller space without losing quality. Compression, nearly by definition, will result in a loss of quality. Unless that compression is lossless. DVDs only function with a couple kinds of audio. One is lossless (the large audio files you refer to) the other is quite lossy. Take your pick. Now beyond this, you have a maximum of 7.0 Mb/s as a bit rate. The DVD spec can go higher than this, so you are already capping the quality that can be achieved at less than ideal. It seems the answer to your problem is as easy as using a dual-layer DVD. That way you'd have 8.5GB to play with instead of 4.7, and your issues would simply go away. Had you considered this option? __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

October 7th, 2009, 11:44 AM	#4
Nathan Quattrini Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Warwick, Rhode Island Posts: 740	I know compressing makes you lose quality. I was referring to visual quality on the DVD. The picture looking good on the TV ie. not blocky and really compressed looking. When you hit low bitrates it starts looking really awful. Encore is not a user friendly software. CS3 for the Mac is also the first version on Mac and its chock full of bugs and random crashes. I created in 1 week on DVD studio what took me months on Encore. And in the end if I tried burning to disc the program simply shut down. Haven't had a crash yet with DVD SP. It just seems to be much more solid and coherent of a software package. With the audio I am unsure. I keep seeing AC3 is a better format to have the audio pre-converted to than others because its high quality and low on space hogging. Trying to still figure out how to do that. And yes, stories will help to cut out alot of the space I found out. It will prevent me from needing to take up twice the space with the same clip on different tracks. Working on it now. __________________ Cinematography Site

October 7th, 2009, 11:50 AM	#5
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Oh, You never indicated you were working on a Mac. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.