PAL to NTSC DVD - audio too hot at DVinfo.net

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Old January 27th, 2010, 06:47 AM   #1
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PAL to NTSC DVD - audio too hot

I sent a NTSC DVD that I made to a friend in America, and he tells me that the audio was breaking up on a DVD player, but was fine on a computer.

I'm in Europe so is there something I should be aware of in creating NTSC DVDs?

This was my (convoluted but necessary workflow)

- Video: Canon 5D Mk II 1080p 30fps converted to Cineform 29_97
- Audio: Zoom H4 96Khz

- Video and audio synced in Premiere 1920x1080 44.1Khz project 25fps (video converted using Twixtor in After Effects). Limiter on audio set at -3db.

- Export to Cineform 1920x1080 25fps

- Resize in VirtualDub to NTSC size and conform to 23.976fps with audio stretch. Export to Cineform

- Convert to NTSC MPEG2 DVD with pulldown in TMPGEnc

- Burn with Encore


Is the problem step the audio stretch, do you think? If so, is there a way to fix it?

Should I just drop the levels 3db and hope for the best?
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Old January 27th, 2010, 04:34 PM   #2
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NTSC does not support mpeg audio

be sure your audio is ac3 at 256kbps for DVD

Tmpg does a great job outputting ac3
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Old January 28th, 2010, 05:12 PM   #3
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Thanks for that input Anton.

This is what I had selected:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4044/...501ccc96_o.jpg

Can you tell me if this is correct or not? (Final output is a single MPEG stream)
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Old January 28th, 2010, 07:25 PM   #4
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your dolby ac3 bitrate should be 256

your video bitrate is too high, should be no more than 7700 for burning

GOPs should be closed and I always output elementary streams which are required by most authoring programs

you need to click the Mpeg output button to unlock all possible settings
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Old January 28th, 2010, 11:47 PM   #5
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Pardon me?

You're all over the place here mate....

You're taking a 30P source, changing it to 29.97, slowing down to PAL, the slowing to Film..
Audio source was 96khz, then went to 41khz, then gets stretched, and then gets resampled to 48khz.....

In any ONE of your steps, i could see a potential pitfall...

If the source is 30P, don't touch the framerate, and resize for DVD output as progressive footage..
Also, if you have the choice, ALWAYS capture the audio in 48khz...Bitrate is subjective, but 256kbps should be more than adequate..
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Old January 29th, 2010, 05:58 AM   #6
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Thanks Anton, regarding your suggested audio settings, is that just best practice in general or do you think it's a fix for the sound breaking up in NTSC?

What is the disadvantage of using such a high video bitrate - could it cause problems with players? About 100 people have viewed the PAL version on DVD encoded at that bitrate and there have been no problems reported to me as yet.

Peter, I'm afraid those steps for the video were all necessary as I mentioned in my OP. The 5D captures at 30p, Cineform slows it to 29_97. I had to deliver primarily in PAL so I frame blended to 25p with Twixtor, not slowed. Now I need to convert to NTSC, so the simplest way to do that is to slow to 23.97. The video is not an issue, it looks perfect in both PAL and NTSC. In fact our national TV station just called me this morning to let me know they wish to acquire it for broadcast in primetime slot.

However, I should indeed have captured audio at 48Khz and setup my project at 48. That was two mistakes on my part. I've learned my lesson (honest!)
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Old January 29th, 2010, 10:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hannon View Post
Thanks Anton, regarding your suggested audio settings, is that just best practice in general or do you think it's a fix for the sound breaking up in NTSC?

What is the disadvantage of using such a high video bitrate - could it cause problems with players? About 100 people have viewed the PAL version on DVD encoded at that bitrate and there have been no problems reported to me as yet.
playing a DVD-R with higher combined bitrate than 8000 will cause stutter problems with many players

if you have the DVD-R replicated, pressed from glass master, then you can use maximum bitrate

ac3 audio at 256 is the common standard for Pal and NTSC

NTSC countries also support uncompressed wav audio at 1500kbps, this means you have to lower the video bitrate to 6500

mpeg audio is supported in Pal countries and not at all in NTSC

so, choose ac3 or wav

in my case, always ac3
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Old January 30th, 2010, 07:16 AM   #8
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Excellent info - thanks!
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 03:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hannon View Post
I sent a NTSC DVD that I made to a friend in America, and he tells me that the audio was breaking up on a DVD player, but was fine on a computer.
What do you mean by breaking up? Distorted badly? Cutting in and out in audible chunks?
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 04:17 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Mike Hannon View Post
I'm in Europe so is there something I should be aware of in creating NTSC DVDs?
I have never seen a DVD player, here in the US, that could not play PAL DVDs. Perhaps all you needed to do is send him your original PAL DVD and it might have worked for him without you going through the trouble of converting it to NTSC.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 12:26 PM   #11
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I have several players, some do play PAL, some don't.
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Old February 21st, 2010, 06:41 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Warren Kawamoto View Post
What do you mean by breaking up? Distorted badly? Cutting in and out in audible chunks?
I haven't heard it myself - I sent it to a friend in the States who told me about it. From what he said I gather that it was distorting.
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Old February 21st, 2010, 11:04 PM   #13
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I have several players, some do play PAL, some don't.
In that case Mike should ask his friend if his player can handle PAL.
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 06:43 AM   #14
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The difference is in the video, not the audio; a player that can handle the video should have no problem playing the audio as well.
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