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Old March 11th, 2007, 08:58 PM   #16
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Disc Makers

I own an Epson R200 that I picked up for $65.00 "refurbished" from EPSON (with ink). It came like brand new for less than the cost of ink in my other printer, which does not print on CD\DVD. The most I have printed at one time is 20 DVD's with covers. VERY time consuming (and expensive)! For anything over 50 DVD's I would definitely look to other sources for print and duplication.

Disc Makers sell several duplicators, printers, pre-printed/silk screened blank discs, posters, packaging, etc. The prices on their products and services are reasonable. Personally, I have never done business with them but I receive their catalog all the time.

For those who own a business in this type industry and need a helping hand from time to time, when on a tight schedule, Disk Makers seems like a pretty good place to turn. www.discmakers.com

Just a suggestion.

Stacy
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Old March 11th, 2007, 09:04 PM   #17
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Okay...First of alll Mike, You were the one that jumped on me when I simply asked if anyone had used the Alea printers. Even at 20 to 40 cents, we're still not anywhere close to 224,000 prints before it becomes cost effective...

The realisitc hard cost median point is going to be somewhere between 7,000 and 15,000 discs, fyi. The only reason I compared the 2 is because you did, to show you that you were way off base...

Secondly, you're $.06 per full color (again 100% coverage) is grossley under estimated. You cannot get 1000 full color, full disc prints out of an Epson printer off of $60 in ink, or any other printer in that price range for that matter. The reason I said $.60 was because someone in their above post mentioned that they could print about 100 discs with a set of ink - sounded about right.

You are right that most people will not need that many discs, but I was just interested in what printers people were using. Please don't tell me the "appropriate question to ask", especially when I did ask the appropriate question in the first place. You combined 2 of my questions to be one which is taking me out of context. My first post asked which printer you use, my next question was if anyone had any experience with the Alea printers. You proceeded to combine the 2 as if I were trying to compare them - not so.

So for those people that are reading a bit too far into this..... I will be a bit more specific....


1. I was wondering what DVD printer you were using to print on DVDs, how cost effective it is for you, how fast, etc. Are consumables expensive for your printer?

2. does anybody have any experience with the ALEA stuff?


The questions that I did NOT ask, and DON'T want or need answered:

Can someone take all my questions out of context, jumble them up, then proceed to tell me how I should be doing things?


We have a need for multiple printers, so even if we are thinking about getting an automated printer, we still may get something else. Our needs vary, so we're interested in what everybody is using and how it is working out for you.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 09:54 PM   #18
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Okay...First of alll Mike, You were the one that jumped on me when I simply asked if anyone had used the Alea printers. Even at 20 to 40 cents, we're still not anywhere close to 224,000 prints before it becomes cost effective...

The realisitc hard cost median point is going to be somewhere between 7,000 and 15,000 discs, fyi.

Secondly, you're $.06 per full color (again 100% coverage) is grossley under estimated. You cannot get 1000 full color, full disc prints out of an Epson printer off of $60 in ink, or any other printer in that price range for that matter. The reason I said $.60 was because someone in their above post mentioned that they could print about 100 discs with a set of ink - sounded about right.

You are right that most people will not need that many discs, but I was just interested in what printers people were using. Please don't tell me the "appropriate question to ask", especially when I did ask the appropriate question in the first place. You combined 2 of my questions to be one which is taking me out of context. My first post asked which printer you use, my next question was if anyone had any experience with the Alea printers. You proceeded to combine the 2 as if I were trying to compare them - not so.

So for those people that are reading a bit too far into this..... I will be a bit more specific....


1. I was wondering what DVD printer you were using to print on DVDs, how cost effective it is for you, how fast, etc. Are consumables expensive for your printer?

2. does anybody have any experience with the ALEA stuff?

We have a need for multiple printers, so even if we are thinking about getting an automated printer, we still may get something else. Our needs vary, so we're interested in what everybody is using and how it is working out for you.


I did not "jump" on you! You started with a very simple question, "Was wondering what DVD printer you were using to print on DVDs, how cost effective it is for you, how fast, etc. Are consumables expensive for your printer?

That question did not prepare us for your follow-up on thousands of DVD's to print.

If the Alea has no problems at all and all you are talking about is the ink cost, then the cost of the printer would have to be amotized into the cost of the whole project. FYI at 7,000 disks the cost of the printer per disk would be .6429 per disk, and at 15,000 it would be .30 per disk. And, this is before ink and any printer problems.

When I figure my ink costs, I figure it at what I spend, not on what you estimate. Like I mentioned before, I get 5 full sets of ink sent to my door for less than $35.00. I have had excellant service out of my cheap little printer, and all of my disks are 100% coverage. I found the guy who said 250 on a set, and a set costs me $7.00. That is .028/disk.

What I am saying is that you can ask any question you please, but if you want an appropiate and workable answer, ask the question in a way that will give it to you.

Let me ask you this question: I am going to shoot video, so what camera should I buy? Is this a question that will lend itself to usable responses?

I am just trying to get the information you need. Ask a specific question with specific criteria and you will get the answer you desire.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 10:45 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Mike Teutsch View Post
I did not "jump" on you! You started with a very simple question, "Was wondering what DVD printer you were using to print on DVDs, how cost effective it is for you, how fast, etc. Are consumables expensive for your printer?

That question did not prepare us for your follow-up on thousands of DVD's to print.

If the Alea has no problems at all and all you are talking about is the ink cost, then the cost of the printer would have to be amotized into the cost of the whole project. FYI at 7,000 disks the cost of the printer per disk would be .6429 per disk, and at 15,000 it would be .30 per disk. And, this is before ink and any printer problems.

When I figure my ink costs, I figure it at what I spend, not on what you estimate. Like I mentioned before, I get 5 full sets of ink sent to my door for less than $35.00. I have had excellant service out of my cheap little printer, and all of my disks are 100% coverage. I found the guy who said 250 on a set, and a set costs me $7.00. That is .028/disk.

What I am saying is that you can ask any question you please, but if you want an appropiate and workable answer, ask the question in a way that will give it to you.

Let me ask you this question: I am going to shoot video, so what camera should I buy? Is this a question that will lend itself to usable responses?

I am just trying to get the information you need. Ask a specific question with specific criteria and you will get the answer you desire.
Fair Enough Mike. But my question was perfectly valid, as I am also in the market for a smaller printer to handle one offs for my desk. That's why i asked the first question.

If I asked "what camera are you using and what do you like about it and dislike about it? Is it easy to use?" That would be more of an "on par" question with what I asked about printers. I'm not trying to find out why someone thinks that it's the best, I want to know why they use it and how it works for them. That's why I didn't want to be ultra specific - I like to make up my own mind about things based on people's opinions of what they like, rather than asking "What do you think about X-brand of printer" and people telling me to get it or not to get it based on what they have seen, heard, etc. because you know damn well that someone will end up bashing it.... Asking the question, What do you use? helps weed out the people that are here just to give their opinion on what they have seen in a magazine or on the store shelf.

As far as the bigger printer goes, I am also in the market for one of those. I'm just trying to make the point that there really isn't a good comaprison for a small printer and a commercial printer, I was just trying not to start a million different threads with all kinds of questions. Since we were on the topic of printers, figured I would ask the question in the same thread.

Anyways......
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Old March 11th, 2007, 11:44 PM   #20
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To get back on-topic(!), I use a Bravo II Disc publisher for low-to medium runs. I have a dedicated PC to run it to improve workflow. It's really useful for small runs and fully automated - hit go and come back later for 50 burned & printed discs at a time. Take a look at http://www.primera.com/pdfnew/BravoI...e_10.24.06.pdf

Anything above about 500 discs I use a mastering house because of speed, price, and wear on my kit...

Hope this helps
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Old March 12th, 2007, 02:26 AM   #21
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Mike said he doubts if any of us here would do 100.000 discs in our lifetime. I disagree with that, but agree with his thought that a 5k printer isn't worth the money. I do a lot of discs every week and think the Epsons are a great bang for your buck. If speed is an issue, use 3 printers like I do. If cost of ink is an issue, use a bulk ink system instead of cartridges like I do. I'm sure my original Epson has done at least 10,000 DVD prints - and it still works well. But if one breaks down, just buy another. BTW, my ink costs me less than a penny a disc and my setup was A LOT less than 5k. If you just want a cool tool, just say so. I'll buy an automated copier/printer one day, not for financial/business reasons, but for the cool factor.

To answer the original question, Epson r200, r300, r320 each with bulk ink systems.
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Old March 12th, 2007, 03:29 AM   #22
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That's what we currntly use - 3 Epson R200's. Although, we don't have an ink refill system. Maybe I will just adapt one for the desk.

As far ast the $5k goes, If you factor in time, even at $10 / hour, a $5k machine would pay for itself that way in 500 hours. About 3 months of 40 hours/week if you had someone sitting there doing it. Personally, I have other things to do than sit and print discs all day - I have wasted many-o-days doing that already. And I don't want to stick one of my people on it - it's a waste of resources. I suppose it depends on how your business is set up, but in the long run, it will be cheaper to go the automated route if you are doing higher volumes of discs.

Does anyone know if it is pretty easy to convert a printer, such as the microboards printers that are automated, to have a refillable tank system? You could pick up one of the utomated microboards printers for around $1000, add the refill system, and it would cost way less than $5k.....
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Old March 12th, 2007, 10:31 AM   #23
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No comment on any of the above calculations except to write that after the ink that came with my Epson R200 was used up, I never purchased Epson brand ink. Always got the generic stuff, the best deal ever being two complete sets + 2 extra blacks for $17, shipping included and no tax.

Never had a clog nor splatter; no faded colors except when a tank was a few squirts away from empty.

How long does it take to print a disk? A little less than 3 minutes if it's an edge-to-edge job. I don't know how the newest models compare in speed.

As far as the R200 -- love it. After almost daily use for 3 years, it still refuses to die. I read about problems with the sliding tray, but mine keeps going flawlessly like the Energizer rabbit. I haven't kept track how many disks I've put through, but I've never tossed a disk because of a bad or off-center print job.

I haven't used any disk printer except this one, so I can't comment on the newest Epson models or compare with other brands.

The software I use is Discus (www.magicmouse.com). They have both PC & Mac versions; free trial download. It's easy to use and imports Illustrator, Photoshop, etc. files perfectly.
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Old March 13th, 2007, 10:44 AM   #24
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automated vs manual

I agree that a manual route can take a lot of time and that an automated doesn't. I use a duplicating tower with a Wytron 1 to 9 controller. Being near my desk, it is easy to take a few seconds to stack the discs on a spindle and put them in the machine. It takes very little time to reload the printers or burners. Edit your next project as you print and burn your last. If I only have 300 to do per week, it probably cost me 1.5 hours of "work" to get done, even though it takes a few days. Assuming it takes 1 minute to reload the burners and printers, if you had 9 burners and printers set up, it would take very little time out of your day. I just don't have room for 6 more printers. I run my dvd covers on a press and trim them to size on a big cutter - 5 minutes to trim 5000 covers. The part I hate is putting the covers into the cases with the disc. Anyone have a solution to that?

The secret to getting your printing costs down is paying less for your ink. If you want $0.02 per print with an epson you need to buy a lot of ink. If you want less than a penny, buy even more to get the reduced rates.

The great thing about a system like this is if you get an order for 2000 DVDs to get done in a week, it can get done.
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Old March 13th, 2007, 03:36 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Graham Risdon View Post
To get back on-topic(!), I use a Bravo II Disc publisher for low-to medium runs. I have a dedicated PC to run it to improve workflow. It's really useful for small runs and fully automated - hit go and come back later for 50 burned & printed discs at a time. Take a look at http://www.primera.com/pdfnew/BravoI...e_10.24.06.pdf

Anything above about 500 discs I use a mastering house because of speed, price, and wear on my kit...

Hope this helps
Hi Graham just out of intrest how does your ink hold up in the Bravo II? E.G how many full colour discs do you get per cartridge set on avarage?

Right to answer the first question for this thread I use a Epson R 300 and pick up a full set of ink for around 5.00. This is not Epson! but it does the job.
Resently updated to a Bravo II to do a customers medium range job (around 500 discs) Basically because the R 300 would need me baby sitting it for every disc and I just do not have that sort of time.
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Old March 13th, 2007, 06:55 PM   #26
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I've had 4 R200 printers and all had problems. Yes generic ink was cheap, but I couldnt find something that worked consistently to the quality level I wanted. You also have to add in how many times the R200 can have print errors and needs to be reloaded each time.

I have recently switched the the Bravo SE and it is very cost effective but more importantly, the quality is very good. Compared the the R200, I find the colors match better (consistently after calibration and changing inks) and the print quality looks better overall.

Maybe thats just my taste, but I find the R200 to be good for the low cost reasonable quality solution The quality issues I have had, having to babysit the printer, and the other options available really make me happy I left the epson behind after our fourth unit, even if you can get four tanks of ink for $35 to you door. For what its worth, I can get a pack of markers for a dollar and draw labels on there for even cheaper, but quality conts too right (yeah I know Epson isn't that bad...).
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Old March 13th, 2007, 06:58 PM   #27
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I've had 4 R200 printers and all had problems. Yes generic ink was cheap, but I couldnt find something that worked consistently to the quality level I wanted. You also have to add in how many times the R200 can have print errors and needs to be reloaded each time.

I have recently switched the the Bravo SE and it is very cost effective but more importantly, the quality is very good. Compared the the R200, I find the colors match better (consistently after calibration and changing inks) and the print quality looks better overall.

Maybe thats just my taste, but I find the R200 to be good for the low cost reasonable quality solution The quality issues I have had, having to babysit the printer, and the other options available really make me happy I left the epson behind after our fourth unit, even if you can get four tanks of ink for $35 to you door. For what its worth, I can get a pack of markers for a dollar and draw labels on there for even cheaper, but quality conts too right (yeah I know Epson isn't that bad...).


Sorry you missed it, but check it out now.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=86500

Mike
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Old March 13th, 2007, 07:05 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Mike Teutsch View Post
Sorry you missed it, but check it out now.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=86500

Mike
I caught that, but I have already moved on to the SE which can print 20 at a time without needing to be reloaded or sanded down at all. You know you have a quality product when it needs to be sanded down right out of the box to work properly.
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Old March 13th, 2007, 07:08 PM   #29
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I caught that, but I have already moved on to the SE which can print 20 at a time without needing to be reloaded or sanded down at all. You know you have a quality product when it needs to be sanded down right out of the box to work properly.
Sounds good. What does the SE cost?

Mike
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Old March 13th, 2007, 07:36 PM   #30
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The Se was only abot $1k. What would your point be there?

I can get a one chip camera and spend a lot more time trying to get comparable results and in the end, the quality will be lower and I have spent a lot more time. If the R200 is up to your standards, great for you, it is an awesome solution for many. I just had many problems and would not endorse it. For somebody using the unit to make money, I would strongly recomend a pro machine such as the Bravo SE as I would also recommend pro cameras and equipment, over low end stuff like the Epson with a sanded down DVd tray and generic ink.... I get your point though, you like the more affordable solution.
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