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Old November 28th, 2008, 09:46 AM  
5DmkII with Nikon 85mm at f1.4 in broad daylight test
Dan Chung Dan Chung is offline November 28th, 2008, 09:46 AM

I've just posted a short test clip using a Nikon 85mm lens at f1.4 in broad daylight outside to show that shallow depth is possible in daylight, apologies for the wobbly nature of the picture. I used two polarizers mounted on the front to simulate a variable ND filter. Lens aperture was f1.4 and the exposure indicated on the camera was 1/60th at 100asa.

Canon 5DmkII with Nikon 85mm lens at f1.4 in broad daylight on Vimeo

I hope Chris can host a full HD version later, but that's up to him.

Dan Chung
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Old November 28th, 2008, 05:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
If anyone wants to host it to analyze it, it is a 200 meg .avi file with Cineform codec. I can upload it somewhere. I'm not technically astute enough to determine it things are right about it. Let me know.

I assume this camera does not have an actual 24p setting, so something like DV Filmmaker will have to be used ??? I have taken 60i stuff from my FX1, and rendered to 24p in Cineform. You do lose some resolution, but end up with a 24p file to edit with. From what I can see of the file I just did, some frames are essentially blended as I step through frame by frame.
Yes, if every fourth frame were a blended frame one could discard a total of six discrete frames. I guess the "blend" quality/algorithm is key.

I have been playing with the "slowdown" workflow and I'm pretty excited about this, actually. Workflow (on Mac OS X) goes like this:

- Copy raw captures from 5D Mark II CF card to desktop.
- Open in QuickTime Pro.
- Export as Apple Pro Res 422 (HQ), 1920x1080, stereo 44.1khz (this is a very fast export)
- Open in Cinema Tools and conform to 24p (instantaneous)
- Open in Final Cut, create new project, drag clip into browser allowing sequence settings to conform to clip.
- Add clip to Timeline and double-click to open in Viewer
- Add Effects>Audio Filters->Apple->AUPitch
- In Viewer edit the AUPitch settings Pitch->300 (cents, I believe, meaning 25 percent pitch correction)

Hopefully Dan can post a raw clip from the CF card with audio soon so can A/B the result.

And yes, I realize that many people will scream "unacceptable!" about this solution, but it has some real advantages and uses for everyone. Certainly one could at least minimize the number of clips needing a full 24p render/conversion by strategically using this technique (for establishing shots etc).

I do not know the equivalent workflow on the PC to achieve this.
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Old November 28th, 2008, 05:16 PM   #17
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You can also do the opposite... Speed up the 30p file to 48fps and then get rid of every second frame. The result is 24p slightly faster than realtime. Works for some action shots ;)
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Old November 28th, 2008, 05:44 PM   #18
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Frame Grabs

Here are frame grabs I did of of two time lines:

"Original" are done at frame 0:16, 1:00, and 2:00 from Chung's original file on a Vegas 60i.

Cineform grabs are from frames 0:12, 1.00 and 2.00 on a Vegas 24p timeline. (Note: I had to take into Photoshop to deinterlace the originals and size the files for upload.
Attached Thumbnails
5DmkII with Nikon 85mm at f1.4 in broad daylight test-original16.jpg   5DmkII with Nikon 85mm at f1.4 in broad daylight test-original1sec.jpg  

5DmkII with Nikon 85mm at f1.4 in broad daylight test-original2sec.jpg   5DmkII with Nikon 85mm at f1.4 in broad daylight test-cineform12.jpg  

5DmkII with Nikon 85mm at f1.4 in broad daylight test-cineform1sec.jpg   5DmkII with Nikon 85mm at f1.4 in broad daylight test-cineform2sec.jpg  

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Old November 28th, 2008, 06:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Schuldt View Post
Yes, if every fourth frame were a blended frame one could discard a total of six discrete frames. I guess the "blend" quality/algorithm is key.

I have been playing with the "slowdown" workflow and I'm pretty excited about this, actually. Workflow (on Mac OS X) goes like this:

- Copy raw captures from 5D Mark II CF card to desktop.
- Open in QuickTime Pro.
- Export as Apple Pro Res 422 (HQ), 1920x1080, stereo 44.1khz (this is a very fast export)
- Open in Cinema Tools and conform to 24p (instantaneous)
- Open in Final Cut, create new project, drag clip into browser allowing sequence settings to conform to clip.
- Add clip to Timeline and double-click to open in Viewer
- Add Effects>Audio Filters->Apple->AUPitch
- In Viewer edit the AUPitch settings Pitch->300 (cents, I believe, meaning 25 percent pitch correction)

Hopefully Dan can post a raw clip from the CF card with audio soon so can A/B the result.

And yes, I realize that many people will scream "unacceptable!" about this solution, but it has some real advantages and uses for everyone. Certainly one could at least minimize the number of clips needing a full 24p render/conversion by strategically using this technique (for establishing shots etc).

I do not know the equivalent workflow on the PC to achieve this.
This method sounds interesting. I'm going to try it out. However, would there be any complications at all if you are recording audio to a separate device all together? Sync issues? Drifting issues? This gives you a straight 24p movie, right (not 23.98)? What happens when you convert to mpeg2 for DVD? Does your audio drift at that point?
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Old November 29th, 2008, 12:02 AM   #20
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Aside from frame rate, the biggest issue with all the 5d mkii footage so far seems to be crushed blacks / shadow areas. It's in all the night footage, and very clear in this day footage from Dan.

I tried CCing this footage and while there is a little more detail hidden away in the worker's jackets and pants, it is disappointing how condensed the lows appear to be (this in well exposed daylight footage, with blue clothing).

To Dan or anyone else who has had time with the camera, it would be great to know if there is any way to set-up a custom profile / setting to stretch the lows? If not, it's going to be very tricky to light / capture acceptable dynamic range with the this camera.
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Old November 29th, 2008, 10:19 AM   #21
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The manual says movie mode supports canon picture styles.
It would be a piece of cake to stretch the blacks and do whatever other tweaks.
I've only played with it a little because it really seems designed for JPG shooters to get the image they want straight out of the camera without the RAW workflow.
I think once this camera hits the masses we'll see plenty of custom presets like what are available for the XH/XL series camcorders in those threads.
They (canon) have recently updated Picture style editor to version 1.4.
Here's where to get it.
Canon Downloads
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Old November 29th, 2008, 10:54 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Dahlberg View Post
Aside from frame rate, the biggest issue with all the 5d mkii footage so far seems to be crushed blacks / shadow areas. It's in all the night footage, and very clear in this day footage from Dan.

I tried CCing this footage and while there is a little more detail hidden away in the worker's jackets and pants, it is disappointing how condensed the lows appear to be (this in well exposed daylight footage, with blue clothing).

To Dan or anyone else who has had time with the camera, it would be great to know if there is any way to set-up a custom profile / setting to stretch the lows? If not, it's going to be very tricky to light / capture acceptable dynamic range with the this camera.
I noticed the blocked up areas that immediately too. But look where the light is coming from. I would say there is pretty good dynamic range. There's a choice of showing the shirts or blowing out the highlights in the background.

I would expected crushed blacks to control noise at high ISO. I also expect there will be firmware releases in the next year that will improve video image quality. (FWIW, I do not expect Canon to add 24p to this camera)
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Old November 29th, 2008, 12:05 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Don Miller View Post
I also expect there will be firmware releases in the next year that will improve video image quality. (FWIW, I do not expect Canon to add 24p to this camera)
In the past, Canon almost never released any DSLR firmware updates that added significant features. Usually it's just translation updates and compatibility issues, with an occasional bug fix. Based on that, I have very low expectations for Canon to release any kind of improvement as a firmware upgrade. I'd sooner expect a 5D Mark IIn. That said, a small part of me is holding out hope that the customer response to this camera will prompt them to fix the most egregious errors in the 5Dm2, such as manual exposure control.
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Old November 29th, 2008, 12:12 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Daniel Browning View Post
In the past, Canon almost never released any DSLR firmware updates that added significant features. Usually it's just translation updates and compatibility issues, with an occasional bug fix. Based on that, I have very low expectations for Canon to release any kind of improvement as a firmware upgrade. I'd sooner expect a 5D Mark IIn. That said, a small part of me is holding out hope that the customer response to this camera will prompt them to fix the most egregious errors in the 5Dm2, such as manual exposure control.
I really do think they will issue a firmware that fixes some of these issues. I don't think they can afford not to. I mean, Canon is now losing lens purchases to Nikon and Zeiss for their own cameras. That can't feel good. They've entered this video on DSLR rat race now. When Nikon announces their full frame DSLR shooting 1080p at 24fps with light sensitivity just as nice, they will have to take notice. They will lose their market and Canon doesn't like to lose their market.

Seriously, I'm buying Nikon mount lenses already... if Nikon announces something better, I've already got the lenses and $2700 isn't hard to recoup to switch camera manufactures.
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Old November 29th, 2008, 01:29 PM   #25
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If Nikon's announcement on the 1st is significant then I can see a lot of people canceling 5D2 pre-orders and making returns on EF lenses.

For now its sold out everywhere I have called. Waiting lists are between 20-60 people. Some stores are expecting to ship all the cameras by the second week of December. But I would not be surprised if some of us are waiting till January to get one.
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Old November 29th, 2008, 01:37 PM   #26
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I don't know that they'll implement 24p, but 25p might be another matter. Having only 30p can't help their brand image in Europe.
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Old November 29th, 2008, 02:34 PM   #27
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The Nikon announcement appears to be the D3x without video. Looking at the D90, it doesn't appear Nikon is ready to get into video in a big way. Go Red.

Rob Galbraith DPI: Nikon Pro magazine reveals full details of 24.5MP D3X camera
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Old November 29th, 2008, 03:05 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Don Miller View Post
The Nikon announcement appears to be the D3x without video. Looking at the D90, it doesn't appear Nikon is ready to get into video in a big way. Go Red.

Rob Galbraith DPI: Nikon Pro magazine reveals full details of 24.5MP D3X camera
Well then, no pressure on Canon for 24p. However, they will continue to lose lens purchases to Nikon and Zeiss if they don't give folks manual control over aperture.
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Old December 1st, 2008, 12:39 PM   #29
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I'd be curious for someone who has a 5dm2 to try the Creative Auto Mode (CA) for videos. My camera should be here by the end of the week, but I'm wondering if that could be used as another possible workaround (albeit another crappy workaround). I ask because I think video can be shot in CA mode, and CA mode has a slider for DOF. I wonder if you shot something outside in daylight, and compared (under exact same conditions of course) the two extremes of that slider (more DOF vs. less DOF) vs. running in full auto (letting it do whatever it wanted), if there's any difference in the actual aperture used (e.g., the observed DOF is different). Anyone care to give that a go?
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Old December 1st, 2008, 02:35 PM   #30
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Well then, no pressure on Canon for 24p.
Hopefully there will be pressure for 25p though. Euro sales are not going well at all.
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