Flash Card dropouts just like tape? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > External Video Recording Solutions > External Recording Various Topics


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 23rd, 2010, 06:42 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Burbank CA
Posts: 466
Flash Card dropouts just like tape?

Do we still experience periodic drop outs using compact flash? I'm using a Focus FSH-200 compact flash recorder via firewire out of my Canon XH-A1. Doing long theatre shows. I get dropouts randomly. Maybe only one in an hour but it is devastating. Using HDV, the dropout wipes out a huge chunk of video. I don't have a second camera. At this juncture, I under the impresson that there are periodic miss captures of data and the HDV format, just as with tape, crashes hard.

Do tapeless cards suffer dropouts?

Canon XH-A1
Focus Enhancements FSH-200
Sandisk Extreme 3, 30MB/sec data speed, 32 gig card (manufacturer recommended card).
firewire connection.
David Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2010, 07:04 PM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
I've never had a dropout with any tapeless camera. EVER. And I went tapleless in 2004.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2010, 07:15 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Burbank CA
Posts: 466
just to be clear. Tapeless Camera or DTE device connected to a tape camera? There must be a reason that the recording cards like P2 cost so much more than a $175.00 compact flash card. I wonder if this is a factor as well. Also what recording format? HDV or other?


Interesting thing is, forgot to mention that I was running a tape in the camera as a backup. The dropout is NOT on the tape
thx for the reply
David Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2010, 07:37 PM   #4
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Morgan View Post
just to be clear. Tapeless Camera or DTE device connected to a tape camera? There must be a reason that the recording cards like P2 cost so much more than a $175.00 compact flash card. I wonder if this is a factor as well. Also what recording format? HDV or other?


Interesting thing is, forgot to mention that I was running a tape in the camera as a backup. The dropout is NOT on the tape
thx for the reply
In 2004 I bought a firestore. I ran that connected to a DVX100 (original model) for a number of years. In 2008 I bought an EX1. I ran the firestore connected to that cam in HDV mode. I also ran SxS, and later SDHC in the EX1. I shot a film on a 5D. I've shot on a HVX200 as well with P2 and with a Firestore. None of those cameras, in all that time, has ever had a single dropout. Ever.

P2 cards cost a lot off money because Panasonic has a market monopoly. Once that monopoly was over, the costs came down quickly. P2 and SxS command a premium over CF/SDHC because they are faster and "branded" so people believe they are better and more safe for their data. I dropped SxS as soon as SDHC was available and have never looked back.

I've been on sticks, dolly, steadicam, fig rig, and straight handheld with the DVX, the EX1, and the 5D. Never an issue.

I suggest you have a good look at your firewire cable.That's the most likely culprit.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2010, 07:49 PM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Burbank CA
Posts: 466
thx. All good info.

Have you had the occasion to run a recording over an hour straight?

btw, I had this happen on two separate occasions. Used different FW cable. I've used the unit twice and have had dropouts both times. Not exactly confidence building. Not cheap to replace the flash card either.
David Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2010, 10:47 PM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Alpharetta, Georgia, USA
Posts: 758
Since you've swapped cables, I would start suspecting the connectors, either in the Camera or the Recorder.
Bill Koehler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2010, 11:06 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Burbank CA
Posts: 466
yeah, but they're tight.
doesn't sound like anyone is suspecting the hardware. I don't expect Focus to admit they might have an issue. Swapping cards is an expensive experiment. I also suspect that most people are using these systems to record on a much shorter basis. Maybe never encountering this issue. However, I'm forced to use a double system (record to tape and card) to make sure I'm safe. Not the reason I bought the FS-200.
David Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 24th, 2010, 01:56 AM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Morgan View Post
thx. All good info.

Have you had the occasion to run a recording over an hour straight?

btw, I had this happen on two separate occasions. Used different FW cable. I've used the unit twice and have had dropouts both times. Not exactly confidence building. Not cheap to replace the flash card either.
Long form is my most normal use. 2-8hr conferences. That's why I bought the firestore in the first place. I was recording 6hr public conferences and having to stop proceedings so I could "change tapes". I do less of those now, but still do quite a number of 2hr straight recordings.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2010, 01:53 PM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chelsea, Michigan
Posts: 104
Consider that the card may have problems. Try another lower capacity card that is rated for at least the same speed. I say "lower capacity" because your cost is small to just test out and idea.

Also, I assume you are formatting the card before each shoot rather than merely deleting content. This is important.

Dropouts to electronic media are without exception UNACCEPTABLE. It should not be happening.
__________________
Wesley Cardone
www.WCardoneProductions.com, Detroit and Lansing, Michigan
Wesley Cardone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2010, 08:59 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Burbank CA
Posts: 466
thx for the reply.
I am pretty baffled by this myself. It happened 3 times during a 2 hour show. If you've seen what a drop out looks like on tape when recording in HDV or other Mpeg format, it's pretty bad. It's one thing to lose a frame in DV but 15 or so (half a second) in Mpeg is horrible if your doing a single camera job.

I've since upgraded the firmware on the FSH-200 but have yet to test it again. It's also a great idea about the low capacity card. The 32 gig card I'm using costs 200.00. It is the Sandisk extreme 3 (30 Mbits/sec) as recommended by Focus.

The one thing I have noticed is that the problem seems to show itself more often when I just start recording, like 10 seconds into a roll. Doesn't always happen but it's happened twice this way already.

Here's one of the worst examples of what's happening. Right at the very end of this clip, watch the guy in front moving toward stage right. He will jump. If you step the movie frame by frame, you can see the drop out happen
Attached Files
File Type: mov Drop out sample2.mov (16.00 MB, 114 views)

Last edited by David Morgan; June 14th, 2010 at 10:49 PM. Reason: added video
David Morgan is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > External Video Recording Solutions > External Recording Various Topics

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:56 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network