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Final Cut Pro X
The latest version of FCP from Apple.


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Old April 16th, 2011, 05:21 PM   #136
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Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek

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Originally Posted by David Parks View Post
$299.00??? What have I got to lose?
EXACTLY!!!

Adobe and AVID need to realize that once you get someone accustomed to using a certain NLE, it is VERY VERY hard to get them to change. Thus, it would be very smart and strategic for them to offer very low prices for MC 5.5 and Premiere CS5.5 and even offer super low cross-grade pricing. AVID's cross-grade price is ridiculous as it costs almost $1,000.

Further, Premiere CS5.5 by itself is not priced competitively ($749 or ~$300 upgrade) but when included with the Production Premium CS5.5 suite, it is a steal considering After Effects and Photoshop Extended are $900 each when purchased separately. And now you get a very good, revamped, 64bit DAW - Audition included in addition to Mocha which is extremely powerful & easy to use, and yet, most people don't ever use it.

Competition is great and it appears that Adobe and Apple are duking it out with AVID seemingly content.

Also, Adobe's subscription model should have been implemented when CS5 was released so more facilities could afford switching 10+ computers to CS5. Instead of $16000 for 10 computers, it is now only $890 upfront per month - MUCH more affordable. Plus, you get the latest release so no upgrade costs when CS6 and then CS6.5 are released.
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Old April 16th, 2011, 05:34 PM   #137
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I don't see how the monthly subscription is more affordable; every 18 months (or so) Adobe updates their major apps, and I could see the subscription model getting pricey.

I'd say Adobe was knocking at Apple's door, but FCP X's price point may have kept the door locked. Back to duking it out for number 2.

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Speaking of pricing, are you certain the $299 is ONLY for the full program or is it the UPGRADE price? If for the full app, then it seems Apple is taking an odd stance by eliminating upgrades.
The price, no matter what, I believe. A hidden camera caught them saying no more FC Express or Studio... I really think they've rolled up most of the Studio apps in Final Cut Pro X.

Also, someone mentioned that Apple FCP fans think these features are new because they haven't tried other NLEs. With all due respect, unless you're downloading the free trials, if available, it's a bit pricey to be buying the apps. Plus, with NLEs, it's harder to just say, "All right, I'm switching," unlike going from, say, Microsoft Word to Apple's Pages. NLEs are very complex apps, and even today I still discover little things in FCP I didn't know existed. I like to just know enough to get started, and just start learning from my mistakes. Hence me learning some obvious things nearly 12 years later.

CNET has a Final Cut Pro X FAQ:

The skinny on Final Cut Pro X (FAQ) | Apple Talk - CNET News

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Old April 16th, 2011, 06:51 PM   #138
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Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek

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I don't see how the monthly subscription is more affordable; every 18 months (or so) Adobe updates their major apps, and I could see the subscription model getting pricey.
At $85 per month, that is $1020 per year and $2040 every 2 years. Adobe stated that their upgrade/new release model has changed to every 12 months and 2 years. A ".5" is every 12 months and a full upgrade is every 2 years now. So, this time next year, CS6 will be released and then 12 months later, CS6.5 will be released. Figure $400 for each upgrade and $1700 for CS5.5 and in 2 years with upgrades to CS6 and CS6.5, that is $2500 total. With the subscription plan, it only adds up to $2040 for 2 years, and you will get both upgrades at no extra cost.

So, the subscription plan ends up costing less!
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Old April 16th, 2011, 06:55 PM   #139
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Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek

Thanks for clarifying that, Steve. Makes much more sense.

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Old April 16th, 2011, 11:57 PM   #140
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Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek

Lots of opinions on this...relatively few known aspects of the software though...the presentation itself didn't do much other than give a peak at some selected features. Lots of bold moves and process rethinking...very Apple (and good BTW, that's not a jab), but I think it's fair to say that 80% or more of what the app does and is is still behind the curtain.

I think the application will have to be used in its released form before it can be fully evaluated. Looks like Adobe and Avid have a couple more months to make inroads before they have to address FCPX.

...and they have been making progress despite what the sales chart presented seemed to show.
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Old April 17th, 2011, 02:28 AM   #141
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Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek

I hope there is an option to connect scratch drives to projects and than existing hard ware, such as breakout boxes will continue to work.
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Old April 17th, 2011, 05:49 AM   #142
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Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek

All i can say is Finally!
I've been debating switching to Adobe for 6 months, frustrated with 32 bit FCP long in the tooth.
Don't get me wrong, the jobs get done; but looking over the fence to other apps using the latest hardware to it's potential was getting me anxious. Especially with all the attention on their consumer device development.
Apple got there in a nick of time; i was about to switch.

My main gripe now is the lack of Blu-ray support.
Although, Jobs apparently doesn't believe in physical delivery formats, clients require a solid delivery of product. Pay the damned royalties and incorporate Bluray into DVDSP already.
At least the AVCHD discs are working nicely for short format delivery . . . i'll give 'em that.
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Old April 17th, 2011, 02:32 PM   #143
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Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek

Didnt FCS 3 have some kind of BR delivery export? Maybe they will expand on that. I am not a huge Mac user so tell me. those of you who need BR delivery (which I think is more than Steve is giving credit for) what will your workflow be? Edit in FCP X then export to what??? Other than Encore what are the other BR solutions on a Mac? Are there any??
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Old April 17th, 2011, 03:31 PM   #144
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Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB

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Originally Posted by Bruce Rawlings View Post
I am sure they said that Colour and Soundtrack Pro are included in the 299 package.
I'm at least as sure that they did not. So far as I could tell, they only said that they're working on other parts of the suite, but they didn't bother to say which, when, or how they were planning on releasing upgrades.

Still, I remain upbeat.
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Old April 17th, 2011, 04:16 PM   #145
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Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB

BTW, the cost of upgrades nowadays is a LOT better than it used to be.

I first started with a Media 100 system in 1997 because it was about the best deal at the time, compared to Avid. And much of it was real time without rendering, which was an accomplishment in the days when computers weren't nearly as powerful as they are now.

Upgrades would cost $3,000 or more, depending on what level of Media 100 you wanted. And updates were also $1,000 or more.

Them came Final Cut Pro HD.

The cost of the entire program was less than an M100 update. More than just two video tracks. A seemingly unlimited number of audio tracks. And it could handle HD. Without any special hardware.

Afterward, Color was incorporated into the package. And, having come from a photo and "prepress" background where color was always a big deal, this made it even better. It was now practical to "burn and dodge" video! And I didn't have to spend $5000 to get it!

So for this new FCP to be priced at $299 -- Definitely not bad. Still going to wait and see what is done to Soundtrack Pro, Color and the rest of the suite before passing judgement. But overall, so far so good.
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Old April 17th, 2011, 06:26 PM   #146
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Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek

Both FCP and Compressor have an export to Blu-ray function. There are reasonable encoding controls but the authoring was a step below even iDVD. So not even iDVD level of menu creation let alone the authoring capabilities of DVDStudio Pro.

I don't think the market penetration is all that great, at least compared to DVD. I'd love to see the numbers for Netflix Blu-ray rentals vs their streaming views.

The problem we face is that some clients still want a physical deliverable medium with reasonable menus. You can deliver a Blu-ray disk from FCP7 and Compressor 3.5 though.
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Old April 17th, 2011, 07:03 PM   #147
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Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek

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Originally Posted by Jonathan Palfrey View Post
I'm glad other NLE are starting to include features Vegas has had for years such as real time rendering, audio waveforms, "magnetic timeline" and excepting multiple file formats.
When all those features were listed I just kept thinking to myself, "FCP seriously didn't have any of that before?!" I've been using most of it in Vegas on a $350 netbook for over 3 years. And on a desktop for 6 years.

And I'm not sure I understand how Adobe and Avid are behind the curve. A lot of these features are in CS3 and MC5.
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Old April 17th, 2011, 08:01 PM   #148
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Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek

More interesting perspective. Here's my next round.

I keep reading these posts where everyone keeps noting "My software did (insert FCP feature X months/years ago!'

But I think that TOTALLY misses the point. It's irrelevant unless you ask WHY then, NO OTHER software has been able to give FCP a serious run for it's crown in editing popularity? It's always been an expensive program $1000 plus - that REQUIRES the user to purchase a NON windows PC in order to use it. Yet it's grown, and grown, and grown.

The publicly displayed statistic at the SuperMeet is that FCP has a HUGE worldwide installed base lead over Premier, Vegas, et al. And inarguably those are excellent editing software solutions.

Is it all timing? Luck? If it's not features, what is it?

IS it the often mocked Reality Distortion Field? Or is that phenomenon, itself based on something OTHER than the actual distortion of reality. Is there an underlying truth that escapes so many Apple detractors? Something illogical but still fundamental to the way this particular company does business?

Apple, does seem to generate an almost cult-like following. Why? Is it truly because Mac-heads are merely the "some of the time" people that PT Barnum argued can be fooled over and over and over again? Or is there something else in play here.

My answer is that with Apple, it's NEVER as simple as just the product.

Yeah, other companies had more features in their NLEs than FCP up to recently. But at Apple, products aren't stand-alone items, but reflections of a larger "VISION" built around those products.

Look at history. They figured out that It's not just a music player - but rather a tool in the the music consumption ecosystem - so while RIO, et al, sold THINGS, Apple sold an end-to-end new turnkey solution to consuming and listening to music - the player, the web access, the software, the royalties, EVERYTHING and wrapped it in a easier to use environment that was incredibly attractive and painless to use.

They did the same with mobile telephones. The carrier hardly mattered - or even the "features" of the phone itself. It's was total phone experience. (NO buttons, how will I use it? Better, actually. and you get APPS, and Music, and location based services, and a BETTER web experience, and on and on and on. - so much so that people FLOCKED to it even tho the network was essentially a mess for the first two years of service!)

Apple is now doing that with motion content creation. Editing, if you will.

You want to hold fast to working the same way you did when it was physical tape - burn plastic DVDs and distribute your work via FedEx or the US Mail? Well go right ahead.

But be careful. Apple just told us they spent a LOT of time asking fundamental questions about how video (and other motion content) NEEDS to be processed in order to prepare for where the industry is likely to go in the future.

Personally, after noting their track record - I've learned to pay CLOSE attention to the smart people who's job it is to suss out the future.

You might not like it. Heck, I might not like it. But I've learned to ignore the lessons of proven high performers at my own personal peril.

For what it's worth.
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Old April 17th, 2011, 08:37 PM   #149
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Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek

Hi Bill,

Very well said.

I am no marketing expert but I do have a BS degree in Marketing and Poli Science; so, I have a decent understanding of how consumers and people 'think'. With Apple, the reason their products sell so well is due to Branding.

Just look at the iPad. For a very very small percentage of owners, it does something they can't get from something else cheaper or do something better. The iPad is 'Cool' and Apple is 'Cool'. The iPhone is 'Cool'. The iPod is 'Cool'. Apple has done an amazing job of creating a 'Cool' brand. People will spend more money on an item because it is 'Cool'.

The basic underlying psychology behind the 'Cool' factor is about people wanting to fit in and be accepted by others.

So, with FCP, being an FCP user, you are part of a 'Cool' group.

Part of the technical reason behind FCP having such a large user base is due to it being the strongest and most affordable/best value several years ago. Premiere wasn't a strong competitor and Avid had a very high entry cost. Still today, I hear some people referring to Media Composer as an 'Avid' just like Autodesk's Flame and Smoke even though these are just software programs, but they are purchased as a complete turnkey system.

The second part is Apple's strategy of getting potential users into their hardware and software at an early age. Look at all the high schools who are providing iPads or MacBooks to their students. From a business standpoint, this is genius. Apple gets students accustomed to their hardware and software so it is just a natural progression that these students purchase their own Apple products.

If Adobe and others want to 'steal' current and future FCP users, they must provide seriously low pricing or software that is so much better. For the last year, Adobe CS5 has been the latter while Avid has been way off on both.

On a side note: Steve Jobs and Apple need to realize that the internet should not be relied upon as the 'best' and only way to transact in the near future. Why? Because more and more ISPs are implementing CAPS on bandwidth :( booooooo! A family of 4 can go through 250GB of data (includes up & down) in a couple weeks with youtube, vimeo, Netflix, iTunes... At my house, we don't use Netflix but we have gone over 250GB twice and had over 90% usage twice since upgrading to Comcast's 50Mb 6 months ago. Heck, Comcast just rolled out 100Mb service for residential (business has had it for a while) and I think it comes out to JUST 14 hours of downloading until the 250GB cap is reached. What a joke!
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Old April 17th, 2011, 08:59 PM   #150
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Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek

Understand though that not every editor is a filmmaker and not every editor has a production house. In my case I do weddings say what you like but I need BR my clients are not going to watch my work off the web they may look to the web for demos etc but at the end of the day I need to deliver a "plastic disc" as you put it because thats the way its done no matter what some futurist thinks. One thing I thing I think FCP X needs to get (on another note) is motion my full time job is at a TV station where we use FCP the one thing our editors use alot is motion for promos. As it sits none of our editors want anything to do with FCP X although we are all hoping Apple shows us something.
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