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Final Cut Pro X
The latest version of FCP from Apple.


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Old June 22nd, 2011, 02:40 AM   #76
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Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store

Nesting has been replaced by compound clips which allows you to group together a complex set of elements and collapse them into a single clip right on the timeline. Double-clicking unpacks it again.

Not sure yet what to do about the old sequences workflow, it's gone. Separate timelines doesn't seem to be an option. Well figuring it out is half the fun I suppose.

So far so good, I'm enjoying using this, working through an advert that's due next week, and it's making me smile.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 02:58 AM   #77
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Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store

<<Yes, but in your example you could at least export an EDL and bring that into Avid. Now that option has been taken away as well apparently.>>

I'm thinking not taken away, just not implemented yet.

<<A couple of things I'd like to know:

There's no sequences... what about having multiple instances of FCPX running simultaneously? And can you still use nesting? What happens if you double click on a nested sequence? Does it open a new window or open that project in the current window?>>

It's a whole new way of thinking but yes, "nesting" is more powerful and flexible than what you're used to. it's all one project and everything happens in front of you.

I'm telling you I've hated FCs media management for ten years. Once people get used to this new way of thinking most are going to love it. I already do. We do a ton of photography for our clients and media, and Event based management is something I'm already very fond of.

Apple's not stupid, just the opposite. Of course they're making this integrate with iPhoto and Aperture and that's great because it simplifies our workflow enormously. I'm happy to spend more money with them if they keep evolving and integrating their multimedia tools.
I love CS5 for the same reasons.
Win/win
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 03:02 AM   #78
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Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store

Ah ha, ok I get it now. Compound clips can be re-used in different projects. So you don't have sequences anymore, you just build your compound clips on the timeline and re-use them later. They are stored like any other clip. Even better, it looks like you can use compound clips with the auditioning feature. And you are supposed to be able to carry over effects as well by applying compound clips to multiple elements on the timeline. That's a pretty slick workflow. Looks like compound clips just became my new best friend.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 03:25 AM   #79
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Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store

I'm a long term user from the Premiere/AE side, i have in fact the first copy of AE somewhere around here. I have invested thousands in Adobe Products. I tried Final Cut Express but hated it. I've edited short commercial pieces up to 2 hour dramas.

I absolutely love this Final Cut. It combines 99% of what i need across Premiere and AE in a single place, the grading, animated masks and overall editing are what i think should be in an editing package. (I have a VFX background so like to do my own work)

I'm on a macbook pro i7 and it runs really well. I will live with it longer but probably move my main machines over to Macs for this.

I do think though that there are a lot of existing workflows people have that simply don't fit into this approach. Tape based for one. But i've not used tape in years. There's also a massive shift in editing and i think the UI promotes creativity rather than mundane logging and editing. So these things are not right for a lot of 'bread and butter' work. Maybe these issues can be addressed.

I'm not one for being a fanboy, but i really do think apple have managed to shove the creative side of editing up a level and i look forward to doing serious work in it and concentrating on the content - not dynamic linking of compositing, faffing with Magic Bullet Look masks because they don't animate. etc,. etc,.

cheers
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 04:07 AM   #80
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Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store

Having used FCP since version 1.5, I am disappointed.
I believe that a new version of an established product should be an improvement, whether you redesign, recode or just paint it with a different color.
The new product should have the features that users used in the old one. They can get rid of old features that are no longer used but not features that users need.

So I have a few problems:

We premix sound and then export OMFs for just about every project and do the mix in a sound studio.

We often use Muliticlip edits.

We archive our final products either on HDCAM or Digibeta. Now I need a standalone solution to ingest and output? We will move to a completely tapeless solution as soon as all our clients and Broadcast stations do as well.

We don't use our burned in Cinema Displays as broadcast monitors... We have proper, calibrated Broadcast Monitors. We must. Our clients need to be assured that what they see is a reference.

We have ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST in publishing to YouTube or any other exhibitionist social media platform from Final Cut. (If we choose to do so, I don't mind a few extra mouseclicks to encode and upload) I don't want my menus to be cluttered with this time wasting stuff.

They could have kept these features, I am sure. But they didn't. I don't like what that tells me. Either they have been listening to amateurs to give them the wishlist for FCP X or they really don't care about pro users.

Of course they will make adjustments, and add features, but seeing upload to YouTube favoured over broadcast usability makes me shiver. I have a bad feeling about that shift of priorities.

I tried AVID MC 5.5 because they had a deal for 995 $ until last Friday. So I downloaded the demo.
The installation went fine, without any hiccups. When I tried to start the application though - It didn't like it. In fact, even my bluetooth mouse didn't work anymore...
I called the local dealer, asking "wtf..." and he wanted to know what OS I am running. 10.6.7, I replied. Ha! he said, that is the problem. MC 5.5 won't work with that... there is no patch yet. To my question why I can install the software on a OS that is not compatible, he did not have an answer.

So I tried the uninstaller, which made the app disappear from my app folder but still my bluetooth mouse and even FCP 7 didn't work anymore...

Time machine to the rescue. Now all is well again. Regardless to say - the test made it clear "NO MC for us" I don't need more problems. And I especially don't need software that screws up other applications...

So for us FinalCut X and MC is not a solution... then what is?
use FCP 7 until that is totally outdated, which actually last for a while - and then retire to a tropical island - drinking pineapple juice all day... ?
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 04:25 AM   #81
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Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store

I not so sure this is an upgrade, rather a new product. Perhaps it should have been called something else and that would have cut out a lot of the issues.

I can imagine lots of broken workflows when you change paradigm, hence with FCP X is not for everyone.

Having said that I'm sure there will be support for monitoring, perhaps via thunderbolt (and maybe third parties). Apple have said they'd be updating sooner and more often and perhaps soundtrack will be another add on product soon.

I can totally understand the frustration of facility houses who have built workflows around FCP in the past.

cheers
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 07:08 AM   #82
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Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store

I must say I'm disappointed as well. I moved to FCP from an AVID PC world because of the deep rich features it had. No other NLE offered so much under the hood. Performance wasn't there for rendering but I didn't care because I felt FCP didn't hold me back. I tried every NLE out there and honestly felt FCP was the best extension to what I do.

FCPX on the other hand is just unacceptable for professional software. Sure if you want to edit simple projects or vacation videos it is nice and really attempts to take editing to the next level. There is just too much missing however and honestly kind of an embarrassment.

If you are somebody who does still use tape or uses multi-cam editing everyday FCPX is like taking a step backwards. FCPX borrowed a lot from SONY Vegas so it isn't even like what they did was cutting edge.

I feel as though FCPX was rushed to market before it was ready due to pressure from competition. Apple saw people starting to drift to alternative solutions. Now I think some of those people may drift even faster. Like many others I will continue to use FCP until FCPX gets out of beta or even alpha status. I also think it is time to buy CS5.5 Production Premium.

If you are an indy with no budget who just shoots your own projects on DSLR then FCPX may be a great product. If you actually work with video to pay the bills look elsewhere.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 07:16 AM   #83
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Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store

Interesting stuff going on here. I shall be hanging on to FCP6 for the time being, but look forwards to getting this for my new macbookpro in a couple of weeks.

I'm guessing that this version will attract massive contributions from users, like the iphone apps do. So instead of giving us DVD Studio Pro with a couple of dozen cheezy templates, we'll have thousands to choose from (and pay a small sum for) from the general user community.

Just a guess, but I think this would be a good idea, and make access to new stuff inexhaustible. Can't remember how many times i've used those awful DVDSP templates for corporate dvds in the past.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 07:21 AM   #84
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Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store

Thomas Smet

"If you are somebody who does still use tape or uses multi-cam editing everyday FCPX is like taking a step backwards."

These omissions are already being taken care of from what i read over at LAFCPUG. They will be coming as updates in the near future. It looks like Apple is putting this out gradually and will take a little time to be complete. A rather unorthodox way of doing things i agree, and all the more reason to wait a bit before taking the plunge.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 07:50 AM   #85
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Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store

Sheesh, it seems some folks can't think past "today" when they look at something.
FCPX is missing several important Pro features. It will likely get them in future updates which will come every few months rather than waiting for discs to print and ship.

The new way of thinking is going to be a major exponential speed increase for editors using it compared to other NLEs including FCP7. Project organization based on imported and created metadata is/should be the future. Finding shots, testing alternates, making changes all look to be faster in FCPX. Concepts like Compound clips seem much more efficient than Nesting or breaking things into "sub sequences." Being able to use both Playhead based and Skimming based navigation is going to be a major workflow efficiency improvement.

Sure FCPX is missing a lot. It's a newborn. Sometimes you can look at the new pedigree and see that it's heading in the right direction though. Judged today you'd be correct in that it can't do what mature systems can do. Looking at it though, it should be a much faster system then others within the next year or so with accelerated maturity that the App Store will provide (rapid updates).

It's like learning a new language. If all one knows is English, Esperanto is going to sound like gibberish. If you examine the new language closely, the potential exceeds where other NLEs are going. I've been at this for over 30 years, starting with CMX340 and dubbing with 2" machines and I think this is a new future I'm seeing.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 08:17 AM   #86
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Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store

Actually - you are right Craig. I can't see past today, because it is today that I need to be able to do my job and to deliver.
I don't mind glancing at the future, but as you say FCP X is not grown up yet, I agree totally, but I don't run a nursery for software... especially not when I have to pay.
I glady pay money for good software. I am not really concerned if they charge 40 $ extra for another bit of software. But I expect it to be at least a young adult kinda grown up....
I don't want to pay money to be a beta tester. I am not geeky enough for that.

oh and - I do speak 4 languages and currently learning a 5th. Your analogy doesn't really hold up because Languages becuase Language is an inherently complete system. I have never heard of a language that is missing a major part which restrict the users to certain parts of life and not all.
Apart from Esperanto maybe which is an artificial, constructed language that never had any real life use. I hope you are not comparing FCP X to Esperanto. If FCP X is Esperanto it is dead before it reaches childhood...
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 08:27 AM   #87
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Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store

Future potential is one thing but an unusable app that was touted as an upgrade Is another. I think that's the real rub. I have thousands of dollars invested in plugins and hardware to make FCP work the way it needs to. I can't use FCPX until all of that investment can be supported. And Apple isn't the first or only company to leave people hanging...Adobe's release of CS5 actually killed a couple of very useful plugins that the companies simply couldn't rewrite code fast enough so I had to find alternates.
Much like Canons late entry into the tapeless camera game, I am hoping that Apple is watching the feedback and can implement changes fast enough to make this the best editing solution out there. But I just don't feel optimistic that they will be quick enough for those of us who do this for a living. I will continue to use FCP since it works but Apple will have to get things very right before seeing any money from me.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 08:27 AM   #88
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Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store

Olivier, check out Premiere Pro, it has certainly grown over past few years, and it is very similar to FCP in terms of operation.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 08:35 AM   #89
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Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store

Nobody is saying you have to upgrade now. I'm still quite happy with version 6, and will move over when i think the time is right.
New software always takes time to get up to speed, and as well as the upgrades, we can expect some bugs before X hits its stride.

Lest we forget, this is not FCP8 but a completely new program.

Although i've not tried it yet, i'm with the half-glass-full folks here. I think this will be a game changing bit of software within a year. Those complaining about how much better the old version was should ask themselves why they felt compelled to download a completely new application without even reading a review of it.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 09:25 AM   #90
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Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store

Quote:
I don't mind glancing at the future, but as you say FCP X is not grown up yet, I agree totally, but I don't run a nursery for software... especially not when I have to pay.
There's no reason for you to use it today if you don't need to. You can keep using FCP7 or any other NLE until in matures. Some things grown in womb and some grow external and in this case the gestation is in full view. The advantage of it being being available as that one can start learning NOW.

I remember Avid in 1989 wasn't useful for many things as well. It was even a poor offline system when it was first released.

Quote:
If FCP X is Esperanto it is dead before it reaches childhood
Apple may be the one company that can pull off Esperanto. I think they can. FCPX is truly an alien edit system to most people. It portends to be much faster and more efficient. I can see that already. Yes you have to wrap your head around something new (Klingon if you prefer) but I already see potential for much faster editing.

Quote:
an unusable app
Actually usable by many people for many things right now despite glaring omissions to be resolved later. Not everyone uses the features that some pros use. It's usable now for self contained tapeless projects and that covers a lot of ground.

Quote:
touted as an upgrade Is another
It never was nor could it be an upgrade. AV Foundation is entirely unrelated to Quicktime. Apple kept the name for marketing reasons but this is an entirely new beast with a new media handling structure, not even just a new codebase. It's like moving from OS9 to OSX. One had nothing to do with the other. In this case there's no "classic" feature as of yet though.

It's not simply a radical GUI change. That's superficial. What's going on under the hood is completely new and there's been no equivalent I know of to AV Foundation, hence Esperanto, as this is truly a new language to communicate. It will take some people some time to grasp it but those that do will be much faster editors then those using the older methodology. It's a metadata/database driven system based on new media handling technology. You don't' have to like it but that's doesn't detract from the power that it has and well have as the pro features are added quickly.
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