That's it for me - Project work disappeared...

[William Hohauser]

Stick with Premier but play with X is my unasked for advice.

M2t is usually a lower bit rate than XDCam, I think almost half the rate, which is why you have a good time with it but XDCam is stiff. ClipWrap turns the m2t files into QuickTime HDV which does not change the data in file. It's still m2t but with frame markers for editing built into the file now which reduces some of the load on the computer.

[Jad Meouchy]

If this program is not supposed to be used yet for projects, then why has it been released? And if it's not supposed to be used for professional editing projects, then why does it bear the name of the product that is aimed at professional editing?

All these problems and complaints could be solved by simply starting a new product line.. call it "iCut" instead of "Final Cut" and people will go in with the right expectations. Keeping the same name, EOLing the previous version, and purposely turning off backwards compatibility is simply bizarre and insulting to users.

[Anthony Trotter]

William, your advice is welcome. Thank you! Yes, I plan to stick with Premiere. Being the odd-man-out still using Premiere / Red Giant Magic Bullet Looks while others using 32bit FCP is awkward but very effective.

[Craig Terott]

So major functionality can disappear from a program and we're supposed to accept that this as an upgrade? I'm sorry the Apple Koolaid is beginning wear off and I'm starting to feel the hangover.

The absence of multicam editing makes this program just an inept little toy, like iMovie.

[Craig Terott]

Originally Posted by Jad Meouchy

If this program is not supposed to be used yet for projects, then why has it been released? And if it's not supposed to be used for professional editing projects, then why does it bear the name of the product that is aimed at professional editing?

All these problems and complaints could be solved by simply starting a new product line.. call it "iCut" instead of "Final Cut" and people will go in with the right expectations. Keeping the same name, EOLing the previous version, and purposely turning off backwards compatibility is simply bizarre and insulting to users.

As an Apple share holder, I vote for Jad Meouchy as new head of Apple Product Development. I'm serious. Now, someone needs to be fired.

[Michiel van Baasbank]

Originally Posted by William Hohauser

Stick with Premier but play with X is my unasked for advice.

M2t is usually a lower bit rate than XDCam, I think almost half the rate, which is why you have a good time with it but XDCam is stiff. ClipWrap turns the m2t files into QuickTime HDV which does not change the data in file. It's still m2t but with frame markers for editing built into the file now which reduces some of the load on the computer.

That's what I'm going to do too.

I use Premiere CS5 on a optimized Windows machine which I use only for my editing work, but although editing is fast, sometimes (especially using Magic Bullet) it still crashes every now and then. As all of you know, nothing more frustrating than finishing and fine-tuning a sequence and then the suite crashes...

Although I'm used to the Premiere interface, I really like the After Effects integration, last summer I did a project on Final Cut (Express allright...) and it felt very good. Can't quite describe what's exactly different or better, but it just feels better than Premiere. Also, quite an annoying bug in Premiere is that I have to wait a few seconds when I leave the Premier window and go back.

With my 'main' computer being a MBP, I decided to wait for the new iMac and FCP X, rather than buy and learn FCP. So the mixed, mainly negative reception of X, I'm a little bit disappointed. But... Steve Martin's review @kenstone.net is rather helpful, and he's happy to explain the useful improvents of X, rather than dismissing the software after just one quick look and the missing things...

So quite a long story, but in essence what I'm going to do is: keep editing on Premiere CS 5 for now (although I'm tempted to upgrade to CS5.5, really like the new Warp Stabilization in After Effects, and because I work at a university, I can use the Student&Teacher editions), but I still feel FCP X will become a great program once embraced by the community, so I'm going iMac en keep playing with X and see it getting better and better. If it doesn't, there will be always CS5.5 or 6 for Mac...

I hear older versions of FCP were met with mixed reviews in the beginning, and only later grew out to be one of the best NLE's out there...

[Bart Walczak]

Originally Posted by Michiel van Baasbank

Also, quite an annoying bug in Premiere is that I have to wait a few seconds when I leave the Premier window and go back.

During this time Premiere checks if all your media files in your project are still present. It takes more time if you have a lot of footage or you're working from a slow hard drive or network. It's not necessarily a bug, although I would hesitate to call it a feature either :)

EDIT: It also checks the render files, so if you do a lot of rendering, and then lose the files by changing stuff, it might be prudent to delete render files from time to time to get better performance.

[Michiel van Baasbank]

Okay... I didn't realize that, at least I understand now why Premiere is doing that! Thanks!

[Mikko Topponen]

Originally Posted by Michiel van Baasbank

Also, quite an annoying bug in Premiere is that I have to wait a few seconds when I leave the Premier window and go back.

Disable your antivirus program.

[Anthony Trotter]

Michiel, I've been using Premiere with Windows since way back when. It crashed often, froze up, etc. Got PPro 5 for Mac with 8GB RAM and couldn't be happier. It crashes but not nearly as much as it did on Windows. We did a test on the Mac with both OS (Windows and Mac) through parallels. My conclusion is that PPro on Mac OS ran extremely well. The scrubbing was incredibly smooth. Running PPro through Windows on same machine, well, not so much if you know what I mean. I'm sure there's some explanation for this phenomenon, but I'm sticking with PPro for 64-bit Mac. It's the best solution for me right now especially with all the controversy over FCP X.

[Nigel Barker]

It's really not a valid test at all to compare any application running native on the Mac with a Windows version of that same software running in a virtual machine. In fact I am rather surprised that CS5 running within Parallels worked properly at all. Many programs work great under a VM but heavy duty NLEs that do a lot of graphics will never work well. I actually managed to get Edius 6 installed in a VMware Fusion VM but could never use it for editing which at least was an improvement on Edius 5 that wouldn't even install.

[Steve Kalle]

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

It's really not a valid test at all to compare any application running native on the Mac with a Windows version of that same software running in a virtual machine. In fact I am rather surprised that CS5 running within Parallels worked properly at all. Many programs work great under a VM but heavy duty NLEs that do a lot of graphics will never work well. I actually managed to get Edius 6 installed in a VMware Fusion VM but could never use it for editing which at least was an improvement on Edius 5 that wouldn't even install.

Thanks Nigel for pointing out exactly what I was going to say.

As far as editing on a PC goes, your experience GREATLY depends on what additional software is installed. My personal editing bay in my studio, I have an HP Z800 (12-core, 24GB, Quadro FX3800, Areca 1680ix, 6 2TB Seagate Constellation ES in R5....) with Win 7 x64 Pro on an Intel X25 80GB SSD with only a handful of necessary programs installed in addition to Master Collection CS5 (C4D 11.5, NukeX 6, FileZilla, TeamViewer, Vimeo Uploader, Office). Aside from a couple of bad Macally external cases causing BSODs, I can count the number of crashes on one hand since I got this computer and CS5 last spring. You can't get a more stable system then this and I got 25% off the Z800 without even asking. Oh yeah, I only use Firefox with add-ons and NO anti-virus.

I have another small drive with Win 7 installed (since its OEM, I can install it as many times as I like on this computer to as many drives as I want). I use this drive for testing and have CS5 installed in addition to many other programs, and the stability is not nearly as good as my 'work' drive because some of these programs are not well written.

I have done IT work on the side for the last several years, and I can say that there are only 2 reasons for PC problems (aside from hardware malfunction) - people installing viruses or installing crap software. For one of my clients, an entire office was infected because of idiots from the federal gov't (HUD) performing an audit and downloading personal 'stuff' while they were supposedly working.

[Michiel van Baasbank]

Thanks all, I'm thinking it also could be the combination with the firewall/virusscanner that makes Premiere crash... I've quite a dedicated (win-only, not parallels) system but not as dedicated as Steve's, hence my experience with the occasional crash.

But since I'm planning to go Mac-only, I just as well upgrade to CS5.5 for Mac.

[Heath McKnight]

I'm late coming to this thread, but I'm glad that everyone is judging the software based on their use with it, not what a bunch of bloggers and podcasters are saying. I love Rich and Walter, but if I did everything they suggested, I'd be broke! I'm not a big production house, I'm just an individual editor.

A lot of the false info and opinions based on opinions, based on what others have experienced, reminds me of what I was hearing in 1999 when FCP 1.0 first came out. (If fact, Bill Davis has a great thread/discussion going on an article he wrote.)

When I get FCP X, I will judge it then; but for now, I'm going to do research with cold hard facts and read real reviews, good or bad, not "I downloaded it, opened it, cried, uninstalled it and asked for a refund," or what not.

heath

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Jad Meouchy
If this program is not supposed to be used yet for projects...

well put

As for Premiere, I've used it only on the PC and have had similar experience in regards to it crashing. FCP is rock solid in this regard. It could very well be Windows or applications that run in the background such as anti-virus. Mac OS underneath is cleaner and better written with a lot less hardware variables to deal with.