That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

So, that's it for me so far with FCP X.... Got to either stick with FCS3, or head to Adobe...

Today I was working on my first FCP project. I did about 3hrs work this afternoon, and then quit for a while. Everything was fine...

Then I launched it again, and did around 3hrs more work. Of course, there's no 'save', so I'm just assuming everything is 'saving' along fine. I noticed that the 'skimming' feature didn't seem to be working anymore, so I quit FCP X, and then re-launched it (no error messages, or anything).

All of a sudden, my project is back to where I FIRST quit 3 hours ago! 3 hours of work just disappeared in 20 seconds!

Can anyone suggest why this may have happened? If I can't trust this software to do something as basic as just SAVE my files, what good is it at all?

Frustratingly yours....

Ben

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

I would suggest that you limit your work on FCPX to training yourself with it until the OSX system update shows up. I had some interesting issues that were solved by quiting and restarting and one crash when I tried to delete some media while the program was still analyzing the files. The program is very promising but it's needs real world feedback to Apple before the kinks are ironed out.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

So we truly are just 'beta testers' :(

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Some of us are, depending on our system configurations. Hardware is not identical across Apple models and sometimes programmers can not foresee what one system will do inconsistently. I say as an official beta tester for several programs over the years. Also FCPX might interact with other programs and third party system enhancements in unexpected ways, this is a fact of computer software everywhere.

As some people recommend, and I adventurously ignored in this situation, never go for version 1 of any program or hardware, always wait for the first set of updates.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

William

"never go for version 1 of any program or hardware, always wait for the first set of updates."

The last word on the subject. There seem to be lots of guinea pigs (lemmings) trying out this app for Apple. Nothing wrong with that, but using it for "proper" jobs is a tad foolish at this stage IMO.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

What's the sound of a lemming? Let me make it. And the water down from the cliff sure looks brisk!

Seriously, I do not regret the purchase as I am sure that the upgrades will be coming. In the meantime I can use the time to learn and be ready to use it when stability is achieved.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Why wouldn't you spend the money AND time to learn Premiere Pro CS5 (or 5.5) which is better than FCPX in every way and has been ready for work since its release 18 months ago. Heck, it even allows easy XML importing from FCP 7, something 'X' cannot do. Plus, CS5.5 allows you to set the shortcuts to replicate FCP 7.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Steve: from what it looks like, Apple is taking a new approach how we deal with media and our edit workflow. It is not ready for production use but can be used to play around and see if you can come to like the "new way". I am disappointed and also skeptical where this all goes. I have downloaded the app, and played with it on a non-production machine, I managed to crash it as well.
However the longer I play the more I can see what could be a new approach to editing.
And would we not all sometimes wish for a reset button to go back to square one and look at a problem fresh? It looks like this is what apple has done. - A very bold move, I think. Courageous. but at the same time they did some really stupid things like removing FCS from the Apple Store... This opens a barndoor for Adobe and Avid. Anyone who needs to set up an edit suite now, has to either buy FCS off Ebay, find a leftover copy at a dealer or, go with Premiere or Avid. The latter however requires a downgrade of your OS to 10.6.6 otherwise it will not work and screw up your system (i.e. Bluetooth)

I would not sell my Apple stock just yet. The "second coming" as some people refer to it might still be happening although in installments...

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Hi Oliver,

I am sorry to say, but there is absolutely zero evidence that Apple intended FCPX to be a 'Pro' app competing in the 'Pro' arena against Avid and Adobe. However, the evidence does exist that Apple wants 'X' to be an easy to use, consumer-ish NLE. I suggest you listen to the podcast over at the cow of Biscardi and Harrington. After about 30 minutes, they present enough evidence which shows Apple really intended it to be iMovie Pro.

To keep using the 'version 1.0' excuse is not looking at all the facts. Just last year, Adobe released 4 64bit re-written programs for BOTH OSX and Windows, and they were ALL useable from Day 1. Plus, the year prior, Adobe released a completely re-written 64bit Photoshop which worked from Day 1.

I wonder how many people have both AE and Photoshop. I bet it is a significant number, which should mean that they probably have one of Adobe's Production suites as it is cheaper than buying AE & PS separately. Thus, many FCP users should already have Premiere Pro. All they probably need is a supported nvidia card for GPU acceleration and they will wonder why they waited so long.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Steve. Premiere Pro is a wonderful product.

Better in every way?

Here is why I ask:

(That post was taken from this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/final-cu...ml#post1660292 )

So there are three things per that quote which don't quite jell with your statement.

Here's another one. FCP X is better at leveraging THE EXISTING GRAPHICS CARD in a Mac. It is optimized for that. PPro is currently only optimized for Nvidia. So on a MacBook Pro, for example ...

Here are a few other things I was wondering about PPro performance. There are some FCP X features which I will be carefully testing this weekend:
1/ The removal of background noise upon ingest (always been a massive time-waster for me doing it manually in Soundtrack Pro). Does PPro have this feature?

2/ Automatic color balancing between all of the clips (potentially another big time-saver). Does PPro have this?

So there might be another two which can potentially be added to the list.

My immediate impression of FCP X is that it seems a bit like a new Formula One racing car by Adrian Newey (the top designer in F1). It's got an engine and a chassis that seem to be a generation ahead of the current F1 cars. Capable of doing 400 mph down the straight.

But it's as though he's also put an old packing crate to use for a seat and an old rope attached to each wheel with which to steer. Totally unacceptable for an F1 car. Be that as it may, I'm still going to take it for a test drive around the track this weekend. Then I'll make my short and medium term plans.

The crux of it all is how quickly they respond and come out with 10.1, 10.2, etc. Larry Jordan has indicated that there is a team willing to do just that. One DV Info member has posted in another thread that we should not listen to Larry. Well ... gosh.

I'm going to look for myself, think for myself, take it for a test drive for the next 3 days and then decide whether to integrate it into my business or leave it in the garage until a more meaningful revision is issued.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

I will only add that CS5.5 had its interface retooled, and the lag present in CS5 is lessened, at least this is my impression of the trial version, and opinion of a few Colorista users.

But it still does not beat the responsiveness of Premiere on PC, which is instantaneous, and I'm certain on par with FCPX on Mac.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Why? Because it is not better than FCPX in every way. I have tried it and couldn't do half of what I could do with FCPX in 15 minutes. With FCPX I could replicate several short FCP 7 projects in a few minutes down to the point of being ready to export. That was not possible with me and Premier. Could you do it? Possibly but for me, repeated attempts to use Premier through Adobe's generous 30 day trial offer have not worked out. In short, I don't like it but to balance this out, I don't like Apple's Motion and use Adobe After Effects instead. Anyway $300 is a bargain for an editing program with the level of power FCPX has and worth the money.

Work with Premier, have fun with Premier, in the end the viewer will not know or care where it came from. Let's stick with the thread topic. Anybody else having crashes or odd saving issues with X?

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Like it or not, real BEST PRACTICES is to be able to utilize various workflows on various systems to suit what the client wants (some WILL insist that you use FCPX)

If video editing is really your bread and butter, then you should apready have options. FCPX, Adobe and Avid are cheap enough that you can have all of them.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Ben - is FCP-X co-existing on the same boot drive/partition as FCP7? If so, did you carefully follow Apple's guidance on installing them? Finally, have you updted your OS to 10.6.8?

Terry

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

"Ben - is FCP-X co-existing on the same boot drive/partition as FCP7? If so, did you carefully follow Apple's guidance on installing them? Finally, have you updted your OS to 10.6.8?"

Yes.. I did everything the installer told me to do. 10.6.8 didn't exist at the time.

B.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Ben - If you are talking about just downloading and installing from the App Store, unfortunately, through no fault of your own, that may have led to some of your problems. Here is the detailed instructions for getting FCPX up and running on your machine if you also have FC Studio installed...

Final Cut Pro X, Motion 5, Compressor 4: Installation best practices

I did it this way and , so far, no problems.

Best of luck.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Hi, Terry...

Neither that document nor the update was available when I had this issue. Of course, things may be better now, but that doesn't help. It's like saying 'driving is the leading cause of car accidents'. Using the softwareis the leading cause of crashes... :)

I did what I was told at the time. Why doesn't this document pop up when you run the installer? That's crazy!

Things broke. I'm not saying that things won't be better, just that the software is currently 'untrustable'.

Best,

Ben

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Ben - I know, I was surprised by it, too. I was just luck enough not to have done much more than start FCPX and quit before I found out about it. If you don't have any luck sort of backing out and starting over, maybe Apple support can get you where you need to be.

Good luck.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

I've been using Premiere for many years now, recently switched to running PPro on Mac. It's smooth as silk. I have no complaints. It's all that and a bag of chips. Red Giant's Magic Bullet Looks + Adobe Media Encoder has made workflow efficient and look good, too. My company just ordered 6 new work stations to run FCP X, so I'm gonna have to learn FCP X and make it work with my demanding workload and deadlines. Can anyone tell me their experiences and whether or not these are real issues with FCP X:

* Unable to import / work with certain file types like MPEG2 (HDV)
* Limited video capture, Firewire only capture / ingest
* Can't reconnect to "Offline Media"
* Users can't assign audio tracks, must have utility called "Automatic Duck Pro Export" to do so. - This is especially important to me since almost everything I do involves split tracks, foreign language tracks, narration, and multiple levels of background sound.
* No P2 support, or there is some kind of "trick" to capturing / ingesting P2 files.
* Third party software required to export to tape. I still get occasional requests for that and would like to have that as an option.
* Can’t connect an external video monitor.
* Issues with saving / autosaving project
* FCP isn't really the choice for pros, but merely an advanced iMovie application.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

A lot of questions are answered (adressed) here:
Professional Video Editors Weigh In on Final Cut Pro X - NYTimes.com

Some of the issues you list are indeed issues right now, but most assume those to be fixed fairly soon. EDL being about the only thing it seems Apple will not provide at all (but this may also be provided by 3rd party providers as I understand, same with OMF etc.?).

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

I gather FCP 7 has been withdrawn from the market, which seems a strange act by Apple when the replacement seems to be a beta rather than a fully functioning program.

If you're going to introduce a new version of professional software that replaces an established product, you need to make sure it performs all the functions of the old one. Also, at the very least, it should convert the old projects into new versions that the new software can handle.

It sounds like Apple put out this underdeveloped version out to show they're actaully doing something to prevent people moving over to the other NLE systems, which now seem to have been listening to editors who use the programs.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

I'll answer what I can from juggling work and experimenting with X.

- X can import QuickTime HDV files made with Clipwrap. Raw m2t is not recognized.

- I have only captured HDV thru FireWire with deck control. That works fine. I frequently capture wild sources thru a Canopus A to D converter, that's my next experiment.

- Offline media is re-connectable if you follow Apple's new media protocol. Otherwise the re-connection options you are used to in 7 apparently is not there.

- You have multiple layers of audio available but there seems to be no formal track numbering on the timeline. This is a problem for my complex projects but for the simple ones it works fine.

- P2 is captured thru "import from camera" regardless of where the files are stored before import. Something to do with the P2 file structure or just a weird oversight.

- Removing export to tape is one of those "Apple skips ahead" things that they do from time to time that drives people nuts. Here's the work around: Export the project as a QuickTime file and open it in FCP7. Export to tape is back. I have been doing for a few years anyway as I frequently use an older computer to print to tape so I can get back to work on the main one.

- No external monitor option yet unless you have a DVI to video device that works outside of FCP. Someone else with experience with these devices will have chime in here. I have a second computer monitor that is color corrected with a Spyder Elite device but it's not 100% accurate, maybe 95%. It works fine for me and I frequently output to 35mm film.

- I have not had saving problems since the first crash.

- That iMoviePro tag is not a fair comparison. While it is based on iMovie's 64bit architecture, there so much that this version can do beyond iMovie that I think it's in class by itself. BUT.... it certainly needs work and several FCP7 features brought back. There are so many color filters and other effects included that it could be worth it just as a 64bit effects program. People should think about that as well.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Add to that list: you cannot purchase more than ONE copy per iTunes account so your boss will have fun trying to buy 6 copies. You will also have to sit and wait for each computer to download from the app store.

You also cannot export audio only or edit multicam.

The writing is on the wall and it is clear as day: Apple intended this app to be a consumer-ish, watered down NLE.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

I have downloaded multiple copies with my itunes account. Was allowed to do it on all my systems and even run them at the same time.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

According to the podcast with Biscardi and Harrington, if you have multiple users on multiple computers, you need the multi-user license BUT this license is not for sale anywhere. According to them, what you did is not legal according to Apple's licensing terms.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Louis, what you did IS legal. They are all under your own Apple ID for your own computers and I quoted the relevant part of the Apple license agreement in another thread. Walter B. was talking about a different scenario.

Please Steve, this FCP X release has been disappointing and painful enough without adding false data into the mix. I am glad that both Adobe and Avid have such great solutions waiting in the wings. If Adobe were really smart, they'd keep that "Upgrade to 5.5" special open for another 6 weeks rather than having it expire in 4 days. By then, the updates, or lack of them, to FCP X on super-critical features like repairing the connections to your media (the topic of this thread) and importing FCP projects from earlier FCP versions will tell most FCP editors which way the future winds are blowing.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Thanks for the info, William. It's really helpful. I'm cautious about investing time into learning a program that can't recognize M2T file which come from my camera. I've never clipwrapped anything and don't feel good about not being able to edit with native files in the timeline. Well, we are going to have six of these brand new FCP X stations and I don't think FCP X can deliver what we need. It's gonna have to meet our deadlines, complex, multi-language demands while at the same time offer compatibility with other formats and platforms. Can plug-ins such as Magic Bullet Looks, Colorista, etc, be used on FCP X or are users limited to color correction / effects contained in FDC X? Thanks again, William

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Your company did WHAT!? I can't believe that, it may be the most irresponsible thing I've ever heard in a professional industry. Regardless of how you feel about FCPX, it IS a 1.0 completely re-tooled program. Even if it had 90% of these things all the pro's are complaining it doesn't, it's would still be hard to understand any company doing that. I wish you all the best in that place between a rock and a hard place.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

First of all, editing a raw m2t file is no fun and will bog down the fastest computers. It always better and faster in the long run to convert m2t or AVCHD into a frame based codec such as ProRes. Especially if there are filters being used.

And if you haven't tried ClipWrap and you are working with a lot of m2t files, you have been suffering needlessly. For $50 it solves a lot of problems.

No third party filter works with X yet but X comes with an array of color filter presets that should be very useful if not actually replacing some of the presets in the effect packages you mention. And they are 64bit filters so your rendering time is reduced if not eliminated. I have not experimented with them yet but they are there.

The program works but is wonky in places and Apple needs feedback from actual users who have taken the time to work the program and understand the methods used. If after a week it turns out you can't edit a multi language program with it, then you are correct but I can think of one method right now but I would need to test it before passing it along. And I think your bosses should have bought one program to experiment with not six.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Eric, “the most irresponsible thing I've ever heard in a professional industry” is a bit harsh. The decision was made long before the stuff hit the fan with FCP X. There are many involved in this decision, most of whom have been relying on Final Cut for a long time and know the program well.
William, thanks for your feedback! As I mentioned, I’ve been editing with Premiere for a long time. And cutting m2t with premiere on a Mac has been smooth as silk, better than raw from XDCAM EX. I’m actually going into FCP as a relative newbie. Up untill FCP X came out, I was looking forward to mastering the program. Now, I dunno….

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Stick with Premier but play with X is my unasked for advice.

M2t is usually a lower bit rate than XDCam, I think almost half the rate, which is why you have a good time with it but XDCam is stiff. ClipWrap turns the m2t files into QuickTime HDV which does not change the data in file. It's still m2t but with frame markers for editing built into the file now which reduces some of the load on the computer.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

If this program is not supposed to be used yet for projects, then why has it been released? And if it's not supposed to be used for professional editing projects, then why does it bear the name of the product that is aimed at professional editing?

All these problems and complaints could be solved by simply starting a new product line.. call it "iCut" instead of "Final Cut" and people will go in with the right expectations. Keeping the same name, EOLing the previous version, and purposely turning off backwards compatibility is simply bizarre and insulting to users.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

William, your advice is welcome. Thank you! Yes, I plan to stick with Premiere. Being the odd-man-out still using Premiere / Red Giant Magic Bullet Looks while others using 32bit FCP is awkward but very effective.

FCPX Downgrade
 

So major functionality can disappear from a program and we're supposed to accept that this as an upgrade? I'm sorry the Apple Koolaid is beginning wear off and I'm starting to feel the hangover.

The absence of multicam editing makes this program just an inept little toy, like iMovie.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

As an Apple share holder, I vote for Jad Meouchy as new head of Apple Product Development. I'm serious. Now, someone needs to be fired.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

That's what I'm going to do too.

I use Premiere CS5 on a optimized Windows machine which I use only for my editing work, but although editing is fast, sometimes (especially using Magic Bullet) it still crashes every now and then. As all of you know, nothing more frustrating than finishing and fine-tuning a sequence and then the suite crashes...

Although I'm used to the Premiere interface, I really like the After Effects integration, last summer I did a project on Final Cut (Express allright...) and it felt very good. Can't quite describe what's exactly different or better, but it just feels better than Premiere. Also, quite an annoying bug in Premiere is that I have to wait a few seconds when I leave the Premier window and go back.

With my 'main' computer being a MBP, I decided to wait for the new iMac and FCP X, rather than buy and learn FCP. So the mixed, mainly negative reception of X, I'm a little bit disappointed. But... Steve Martin's review @kenstone.net is rather helpful, and he's happy to explain the useful improvents of X, rather than dismissing the software after just one quick look and the missing things...

So quite a long story, but in essence what I'm going to do is: keep editing on Premiere CS 5 for now (although I'm tempted to upgrade to CS5.5, really like the new Warp Stabilization in After Effects, and because I work at a university, I can use the Student&Teacher editions), but I still feel FCP X will become a great program once embraced by the community, so I'm going iMac en keep playing with X and see it getting better and better. If it doesn't, there will be always CS5.5 or 6 for Mac...

I hear older versions of FCP were met with mixed reviews in the beginning, and only later grew out to be one of the best NLE's out there...

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

During this time Premiere checks if all your media files in your project are still present. It takes more time if you have a lot of footage or you're working from a slow hard drive or network. It's not necessarily a bug, although I would hesitate to call it a feature either :)

EDIT: It also checks the render files, so if you do a lot of rendering, and then lose the files by changing stuff, it might be prudent to delete render files from time to time to get better performance.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Okay... I didn't realize that, at least I understand now why Premiere is doing that! Thanks!

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Disable your antivirus program.

Re: That's it for me - Project work disappeared...
 

Michiel, I've been using Premiere with Windows since way back when. It crashed often, froze up, etc. Got PPro 5 for Mac with 8GB RAM and couldn't be happier. It crashes but not nearly as much as it did on Windows. We did a test on the Mac with both OS (Windows and Mac) through parallels. My conclusion is that PPro on Mac OS ran extremely well. The scrubbing was incredibly smooth. Running PPro through Windows on same machine, well, not so much if you know what I mean. I'm sure there's some explanation for this phenomenon, but I'm sticking with PPro for 64-bit Mac. It's the best solution for me right now especially with all the controversy over FCP X.