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Final Cut Pro X
The latest version of FCP from Apple.


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Old June 29th, 2011, 02:48 AM   #31
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Re: To Mac or not to Mac: The Future for Mac-based editors

Can't tell any difference between FCP6 and 7 myself. Sure there are a couple of coloured markers/sequence icons, and better speed tools i rarely use, but 6 is solid a a rock IMO. The FCS3 "upgrade" was a lame excuse to sell customers a new box of expensive packaging with very little inside.

Concerning moving to a new NLE/platform due to FCPX i think many should hold off, take a deep breath, and ask themselves if it's really necessary. FCPX is a groundbreaking app with massive potential that is likely to be vastly improved very quickly. I believe Adobe, Avid etc, will be studying the app and looking for stuff to put in their own programs, because there is a hell of a lot of good stuff in this program and it's way too soon to write it off.

Unless you absolutely have to have the things avid/adobe have that apple doesn't, i suggest carrying on with Version 7 (or 6) and getting to know X on the side, because i think X is going to blow the competition out of the water within 18 months (probably sooner).

My 2 cents.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 11:56 AM   #32
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Re: To Mac or not to Mac: The Future for Mac-based editors

I've straddled both the Mac and PC worlds as well as FCP and Adobe software. As originally a PC/Premiere user for over a decade, using Premiere with Matrox DigiSuite hardware, I found the sytem(s) to be very stable. For my home systems using Premiere I used AVG Free which provided good protection and didn't interfere with the editing software and continue to use it today.

My current system is Win 7 with Adobe CS5, woefully underpowered, (Quadcore 9450 and only 4GB of 800 mhz RAM), and I can still get realtime editing with color correction and scaling with one stream of HDV and one of AVCHD, both streams 1080i but editied in a standard def timeline.

Meantime, I enjoyed editing in FCP on my Macbook, I like its customizability and I love Soundtrack Pro. But have had speed problems and had the spinning color wheel a few times.

In the end, for me I've found good/bad points with both OS's and with both Adobe's and Apples editing suites. For people wondering what the future is, considering Adobe's CS5 on the MAC or CS5 and Vegas running under Win 7 isn't the end of the world. And FCPX sounds weird but interesting.

In the end, for FCP users, you're futures may be a bit more uncertain but don't get bummed. The alternatives may be better than you think.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 02:24 AM   #33
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Re: To Mac or not to Mac: The Future for Mac-based editors

I see so many people living in the icloud, hoping and thinking that Apple will make FCPX into some amazingly useful NLE. If anyone else BUT Apple released this NLE, I guarantee none of you 'wishful' people would be saying the same about an Avid or Adobe 'X'. The Apple kool aid has gone sour ;)

Apple has been working on this 'app' since before 2008. They designed the iMovie interface and released it back in 2008; so, they have been working on it since then. How can you make excuses for a program lacking sooo many features and full of bugs when this app has been in the works for several years? Adobe rewrote not just Premiere CS5, but also After Effects CS5, Encore CS5 and Media Encoder CS5 in less than 2 years. Plus, they rewrote Photoshop CS4 and then CS5 on Mac. And should I mention that all 5 of these CS5 apps were rewritten for BOTH Mac AND Windows at the same time?

Sorry Robert, but I totally don't agree that people should just sit and wait for things to develop. As you know from your testing, the SPEED advantages and ultimately the EFFICIENCY of Premiere CS5 is worth the money to jump ship from FCP because the $800 or so spent on CS5 will pay for itself in time saved and hard drive space by not needing to waste time transcoding everything.

The funniest thing from all of this is that Premiere can OPEN FCP projects but FCP X can't. For those who are not aware, Premiere can use FCP 7 shortcuts.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 04:49 AM   #34
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Re: To Mac or not to Mac: The Future for Mac-based editors

Excellent info Steve. I'm on FCS 2 (FCP 6.0.6), mainly because I really did not think the minor incremental extras in FCP 7 were worth giving Apple money for - and I wanted to await the 64 Bit re-writing to use all the cores on my Mac Pro.

Well now it's here and I'm looking hard at Premier CS5.5 - for obvious reasons.

Question. Can CS5.5 open FCP 6.06 projects or do they have to be FCP 7? Thanks in advance.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 06:04 AM   #35
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Re: To Mac or not to Mac: The Future for Mac-based editors

Premiere opens FCP XML from any version of FCP.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 10:55 AM   #36
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Re: To Mac or not to Mac: The Future for Mac-based editors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kalle View Post

Sorry Robert, but I totally don't agree that people should just sit and wait for things to develop...
I don't recall saying to simply "sit and wait..." anywhere in my posts.

However as I've been saying it is highly advisable if not a must-do that all professional users of FCP 7 should be looking at options, not just PP but any NLE/hardware package that gets the job done AND comes with true manufacturer support.

Those options being, Premiere Pro, Avid, Edius, Sony Vegas Pro 10, and M100. Like any tool all these come with various capabilities, and a few are PC-only, but again anything that gets the job done and is directly supported is what any pro needs.

The notion that simply jumping off to a newer/different platform comes with costs of time and money, so absolutely nobody should be thinking to simply drop FCP and make a move, but rather spend time learning another NLE either by direct usage or on-line "how to" courses such as Lynda.com to get a real sense of what you're in for.

I've been getting asked often what my personal plan of action is for my own NLE needs, so I'm happy to share what I'll be doing at some point:

- Staying on the Mac platform to take advantage of dual OS's via Boot Camp.
- Upgrading my MBP to a newer 17" inch w/Thunderbolt
- Keeping FCP 7 so I can re-edit old client projects.
- Installing (2) SSD's (second HDD by using the OWC data doubler).
- Adding Production Premium CS 5.5 to my package.
- Take advantage of Thunderbolt with the new R6 RAID from Promise

I'm not going to purchase a new Mac Pro simply because that above setup would actually outperform my old Mac Pro by a small margin. And, I'm not going to a PC-only system because there are apps that I use constantly for pro editing that simply don't exist on the PC - and most likely never will.

As always I advise anyone who's thinking about dropping hard-earned cash to change-up or modify their existing NLE environment to do your due diligence, ask tons of questions and when possible get with a vendor or supplier who can DEMO a newer system for you before you spend a dime.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 07:04 PM   #37
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Re: To Mac or not to Mac: The Future for Mac-based editors

Hi Robert,

Sorry for the misunderstanding. It was late and I was interpreting your comments about sticking with FCP 7 as 'sit and wait'.

I think I read most of your blog last night and I appreciate the honesty and lack of Apple bias. Personally, I don't like the way Apple operates by limiting what its customers can and cannot do with their purchased hardware and software. For example, Apple uses only 4 ram slots and 4 PCIe slots (and 8 ram slots in the dual-cpu) whereas almost all other manufacturers include 6 or 12 ram slots and 6-7 PCIe slots. There is absolutely NO technical reason for Apple doing this. They do it so people must buy more Mac Pros.

I was waiting for the new FCP to buy a new 6-core Mac Pro to use with Smoke and Resolve and migrate some of the equipment from my Z800 (Areca raid & 12TB R5 array, BM Decklink Extreme 3D, Eizo CG243W and a Panny 1710w). However, my plans have changed even though I was really really looking forward to Smoke and Resolve (because I do most of the post work myself, I need the fastest software for my broadcast work). I have looked at all of the evidence and it appears that Apple wants to move to iOS (and possibly ARM chips). After all, Apple is great at providing an ecosystem designed to make everything easy and simple for their users. So, having the iOS on everything from their phone to their computers would provide the best overall experience.

In contrast, I see an opposite direction from HP with their newish 'Z' line and higher end tablets where HP is catering to professionals. In addition, the fact that Autodesk chose HP for their $40,000 to $300,000 IFFFS workstations rather than the almighty Mac Pro should mean something.

HAVE A GREAT 4th of JULY!
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Old July 5th, 2011, 12:09 AM   #38
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Re: To Mac or not to Mac: The Future for Mac-based editors

I agree, Robert -- I don't really think it's wise to suddenly jump into something new, especially if time can't be dedicated to learning a new program. My last full-time gig as a shooter/editor, I would never have had any time to learn a new NLE, even if it's not to bad of a transition from FCP 7 to Avid or Premiere Pro.

I'm still editing on FCP 7 right now, and I do have PP CS5 and Avid MC 4.5 standing buy if I need it. I also hope to try out FCP X this week, and I'm optimistic I'll be able to cut a test project this coming weekend.

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Old July 5th, 2011, 02:10 AM   #39
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Re: To Mac or not to Mac: The Future for Mac-based editors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kalle View Post
I think I read most of your blog last night and I appreciate the honesty and lack of Apple bias. Personally, I don't like the way Apple operates by limiting what its customers can and cannot do with their purchased hardware and software. For example, Apple uses only 4 ram slots and 4 PCIe slots (and 8 ram slots in the dual-cpu) whereas almost all other manufacturers include 6 or 12 ram slots and 6-7 PCIe slots. There is absolutely NO technical reason for Apple doing this. They do it so people must buy more Mac Pros.
Sorry, but how does this make people buy more Mac Pros? What use are extra PCIe slots or RAM in another Mac Pro if you want to expand the system that you are using. The Mac Pro case is pretty tight inside so would need to be larger to accommodate extra expansion slots.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 11:03 AM   #40
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Re: To Mac or not to Mac: The Future for Mac-based editors

Robert, I respectfully disagree with almost everything you've said - the only exception being, of course, don't try to switch NLE's in the middle of a project.

I had the transition to Premiere a few months ago and my learning curve was almost non-existent. It is the same paradigm, and with my set up it's even the same keyboard shortcuts. You make it sound scary and time consuming to change, and it simply is not. At all. Either.

There is no significant advantage of FCP7 over Premiere. Each one has a slight lead in some areas, but they are on the margins. And since Premiere is still being updated, I think it is 100% incorrect for people to plan on staying with FCP7 for years.

Also when I made the transition to Adobe, my partner did as well. But since he was ready to buy new hardware, he went with a PC - and got the same processor in my macbook pro for half the cost with twice the memory. And he has had ZERO stability problems, caught ZERO viruses, in short had ZERO problems with it. We share projects between the two seamlessly.

Your evangelism of OSX as "the best OS ever produced" is worrisome to me as advice as well. If you believe that and it matters to you, then great. BUT like FCP vs. Premiere, Win 7 vs OSX is a story of marginal advantages on either side, when it comes to how it functions as a host for an editing station. The computer, the OS, the NLE, they're just tools, not your best friends. And both OSs are completely fine tools that do a completely fine job. Neither is perfect. And if one of them is the best ever made, then good for it. But that's not a difference that matters as much as you imply.

In terms of viruses and instability... it's easy for a conscientious user to not catch them.

Two years ago company I worked with had a Premiere-bases editing shop. They said they wanted to switch to FCP because they heard it was more stable. Being an FCP user at the time, I said, "No. It crashes as much, it locks as much, it will annoy you as much - just in slightly different ways." Six months after the switch I talked to them and they said, "Yup... sure enough." I'm guessing they're regretting that one now...

Long story short - FCP and PR are functionally equivalent, as are their OSs. One has an upgrade path and one does not. It's a pretty simply equation for me.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 11:05 AM   #41
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Re: To Mac or not to Mac: The Future for Mac-based editors

I can't use FCP X as it is, so I'm sticking with 7 for now. If Apple in their arrogance decide not to reintroduce the pro features we've recently lost, then Adobe will get my money when it becomes untenable to use FCP7 (which I don't really see happening any time soon).

Disappointed? Yes of course, had enough? yup. Giving Apple any more of my heard earned? Nah, stuff 'em.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 11:56 AM   #42
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Re: To Mac or not to Mac: The Future for Mac-based editors

I think you've missed the bigger points I was making, Barry.

The suggestion about not switching immediately comes mainly from the fact that we're still in a very down economy thus, it's not wise to be concerned with spending cash when users with a full FCP 7 install already have a viable and working NLE. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it..." is the mantra here.

Switching involves *spending money*; there's no free lunch in that process and I don't want current FCP editors feeling that they *have* to spend money right now. They don't.

And your personal experience of making an NLE switch being almost a non-event is also very non-typical of the average indie editor. Most do not have master-level skills on either the hardware or software and for them switching involves not-so-obvious gotchas that don't become apparent until they're in the middle of the process.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 12:14 PM   #43
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Re: To Mac or not to Mac: The Future for Mac-based editors

You really want to call me smug? Is that the level of your argument? I was talking facts and experience, not insults. And making conjectures about my financial position and the position of the others on the board to support your post and attempt to minimize mine is simply unnecessary and in this case both wrong and unappreciated.

I was offering an opposing view of both the NLEs and the OSs. And I was offering it from a place of very recent, relevant experience. And that experience informed advice that differed from yours.

Responding that I must be a master-level editor with an ample supply of cash, even though you know nothing about me, is not useful to the debate, and not useful to the people you were trying to inform.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 12:57 PM   #44
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Re: To Mac or not to Mac: The Future for Mac-based editors

I think Robert meant it as a compliment Barry. Based on your posts I would say that you're a very experienced editor with business experience. And you are very good at nailling your points and I appreciate your clarity on the insights you post. I wish I could write as well as you.

Did you go to law school?? Or captain of the debate team? :)

If I may add my add to the discussion, Barry is right, your NLE, or the companys that make them are not your best friends. And neither should we stereotype OS/X is for creative types and PC's are for uncreative nerds.

In the end it is about end results of your efforts. Nobody cares what you edit with.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 03:21 PM   #45
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Re: To Mac or not to Mac: The Future for Mac-based editors

I think the biggest message here is what Robert said, it's a down economy. I know many of my friends and colleagues can't afford to just make a switch to new software and possibly new hardware. Even at $800-$1000 for PP or Avid, that's still a lot of money.

In South Florida, most companies are now one-man-bands, or rely on one or two people to write, shoot, direct, produce and edit local commercials, weddings, corporate videos, etc. There are very few "full teams" that go out on any shoot, even two people. And prices have dropped just to keep business going. Many production houses are charging 65% less for the same work they did 4-5 years ago.

On the local Facebook production pages, no one is talking about FCP X, Avid or Premiere Pro (or Vegas), they're talking about ways to bring in more business, as others go out of business.

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