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Old February 9th, 2012, 08:21 AM   #16
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Re: Can't use FCPX's new Multicam Functionality Until I Figure THIS Out......

Michael:

Understood. I seldom try to use more than one audio source. Most of my work is run-and-gun news shoots with some venturing into music, pubic forums and docs. The news clips usually just use a wireless setup directly into a single camera. The docs and music stuff involve more than one camera but still a single audio source.

I agree audio is a weakness in FCP X. It doesn't impact my work much so I can live with it for now. I can still use FCP 7 and PP 5.5 when needed.

Sorry for the confusion. Let us know if you find a way to make multiple audio work in a multi clip.

D.
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Old February 15th, 2012, 10:50 PM   #17
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Re: Can't use FCPX's new Multicam Functionality Until I Figure THIS Out......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Liebergot View Post
Audio mixing is FCPXs weakest point right now if you ask me. As there's no real way to mix your audio (no audio mixer filter) sources either in the main timeline or multiclip.
I'm askin' you. lol You totally get it Mike, every damn word you typed, 100%.

It just seems wrong that after being excited about the addition of multicam, then getting the 10 demo and seriously kicking the tires (wait, I even drove those tires through the mud), this question kept popping into my head... "how long can I hold out with FC7?" (I mean really, they already stopped giving me software updates)

Dear Apple, There are some awesome things in FCX, but the audio functionality is so dumbed down that I feel like you're treating me like I ride on the short bus. I need to slice, dice, chop, mix, tweak, and finagle with the audio completely independent of the multiclip video. Audio edits (with multiclips) in FC7 run circles around caveman 10.
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Old February 16th, 2012, 09:52 AM   #18
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Re: Can't use FCPX's new Multicam Functionality Until I Figure THIS Out......

Also, don't forget:

Apple - Final Cut Pro - Feedback

You never know if it helps...
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Old February 18th, 2012, 10:23 AM   #19
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Re: Can't use FCPX's new Multicam Functionality Until I Figure THIS Out......

It's still got a ways to go but there are some good features there.
MacBreak Studio - Episode #148: Audio Editing in Final Cut Pro X - YouTube
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Old February 18th, 2012, 02:29 PM   #20
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Re: Can't use FCPX's new Multicam Functionality Until I Figure THIS Out......

Hey folks,

Here's a wee clip I made about my audio workflow with Multicam Clips.

Excuse my poor presenting skills.

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Old February 23rd, 2012, 08:04 AM   #21
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Re: Can't use FCPX's new Multicam Functionality Until I Figure THIS Out......

Your presenting skills were great.

...but these threads are wrapped around the question of how to blend audio sources.

Here's another example. In addition to the creative aspect of what we do, I also provide a raw edit of the wedding reception. Some of it shot with multiple cameras. To make it sound clean but still have a very natural live feel (like you were there), we mix clean DJ mixer audio with camera audio. Often times the mixer audio and camera audio are not as consistent as one would hope for. Throughout the edit I will make volume changes to the mixer audio and cut back and forth between the best camera audio available.

"Get better audio" ...well no - that's not the problem. (hypothetically) I've got one camera in close to the bride on the dance floor and we hear the bride with friends singing. I want that audio source because it is better than a planted microphone. Then on the other side of the dance floor a bridesmaid yelled "we love you guys, whoooh..." and I want to blend in that audio which is also better than a planted microphone. Then 2 seconds later, one of the camera's gets too close to the speakers, now I don't want that audio BUT i DO want the video from that camera because it was an awesome shot! This comes up time and time again in event videography.

So I need to blend and mix audio independent of which camera angle is active. These decisions need to be made on the fly while I'm choosing camera angles.

FCX can't do it.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 09:56 AM   #22
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Re: Can't use FCPX's new Multicam Functionality Until I Figure THIS Out......

Haven't tried this, but can't you simply add audio only from each clip as secondary story-lines and then adjust levels as necessary?
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 11:30 AM   #23
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Re: Can't use FCPX's new Multicam Functionality Until I Figure THIS Out......

Nope. How would you maintain sync across 50 or so clips that succumb to the forces of the magnetic timeline?

Picture this. A multiclip that was shot over the course of several hours. An SLR was used, and the record was started and stopped 50 times.

The only thing I can think of is to duplicate the multiclip for every camera angle, export audio only, then import those audio tracks, then add the new angles (audio only). And even then, FCX doesn't let us blend it. But seriously the thought of this workflow is so ridiculous it makes me want to kill myself.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 11:43 AM   #24
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Re: Can't use FCPX's new Multicam Functionality Until I Figure THIS Out......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Terott View Post
Your presenting skills were great.

...but these threads are wrapped around the question of how to blend audio sources.

Here's another example. In addition to the creative aspect of what we do, I also provide a raw edit of the wedding reception. Some of it shot with multiple cameras. To make it sound clean but still have a very natural live feel (like you were there), we mix clean DJ mixer audio with camera audio. Often times the mixer audio and camera audio are not as consistent as one would hope for. Throughout the edit I will make volume changes to the mixer audio and cut back and forth between the best camera audio available.

"Get better audio" ...well no - that's not the problem. (hypothetically) I've got one camera in close to the bride on the dance floor and we hear the bride with friends singing. I want that audio source because it is better than a planted microphone. Then on the other side of the dance floor a bridesmaid yelled "we love you guys, whoooh..." and I want to blend in that audio which is also better than a planted microphone. Then 2 seconds later, one of the camera's gets too close to the speakers, now I don't want that audio BUT i DO want the video from that camera because it was an awesome shot! This comes up time and time again in event videography.

So I need to blend and mix audio independent of which camera angle is active. These decisions need to be made on the fly while I'm choosing camera angles.

FCX can't do it.
Geoff, I found a solution for using multi track audio for a multiclip. I create an multi-track audio only compound clip and use this as my laster audio for the multiclip.
I normally use 2-3 audio sources in my mix.

It's a 3 step process...

Create empty Compound clip in the Event Browser then...
1. Open Compound clip and place recorder audio on primary storyline
2. Select "Audio Only" as selection method
3. Select and place Camera 1 and Camera 2 as connected clips to the main storyline. Since you selected "Audio Only" for selection method, only the audio is brought to the timeline.
4. Synchronize audio in Compound Clip

Create MultiClip
1. Select Camera 1, Camera 2, and Compound Audio clip you just created.
2. Open angle editor and check sync
3. In angle editor select "Audio Only" set audio to Compound Audio Clip
4. Select "Video Only" and edit your cuts as needed in the multiclip window

If you need to mix your audio, simply go into the "Angle Editor" and open the Compound Audio clip and adjust your mix as needed. You will have full control over all of the audio in this compound clip, and can cut and delete, adjust your levels, add effects (compressor, limiter, EQ etc.) make l-cuts for audio as needed.

This method worked well for me recently, as when I mixed a wedding ceremony, I had clean harp audio from a H4n for the wedding music. Since I only needed main wireless audio from groom for all audio, I then doubled up my main wireless audio for the ceremony audio. I double this up to get a fuller sound in my mix.

If I had 2 wireless signals going, I would simply mxi the two as needed.

Another thing I was able to do was take additional harp music and remix it into the ceremony as a subtle music bed to further enhance the edit.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 02:32 PM   #25
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Re: Can't use FCPX's new Multicam Functionality Until I Figure THIS Out......

Thanks Craig.

Hopefully with more later updates Apple refine the multi-cam feature to make working with audio better, without having to work out complex & time consuming work-arounds.

I was using Pluraleyes prior to the FCPX multi-cam update. Pluraleyes have since updated their soft are to include multi-cam clips.

Thinking about it that may be be worth looking at because you can sync your footage into a new project, plus with the new Pluraleyes update you can also create multi-cam clip. Although I haven't used plural eyes since the FCPX update, so not 100% sure if it will create both a new synced project and a multi-cam clip, or just one or the other.

So you should have the synced project where you could edit your audio the way you want, then turn that into a compound clip. Then add the multi-cam clip to that project and cut the video.

This is kinda similar to Michael was suggesting, but with potentially less steps.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 12:33 PM   #26
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Re: Can't use FCPX's new Multicam Functionality Until I Figure THIS Out......

Quote:
Thinking about it that may be be worth looking at because you can sync your footage into a new project, plus with the new Pluraleyes update you can also create multi-cam clip. Although I haven't used plural eyes since the FCPX update, so not 100% sure if it will create both a new synced project and a multi-cam clip, or just one or the other.
Scott, I believe the answer to that is yes, both multiclip and synced project will be cerated.

See this video for details.
PluralEyes for Final Cut Pro X (with multicam) - YouTube
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Old May 19th, 2012, 03:10 PM   #27
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Re: Can't use FCPX's new Multicam Functionality Until I Figure THIS Out......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Elliott View Post

With FCPX it forces you to make your multiclip from the Events folder, and once it's made and dropped to the project timeline you can't break apart Audio/Video (the selection is greed out), you can't even access the channel info in the inspector on a Multicam Clip. I'm racking my brain trying to figure out a work-around. Can anyone offer some insight?
So Glen, I'm curious if Michaels solution worked for you? I hadn't tried it until today, but it's so much easier than I first thought after reading this entire thread. I like the way Michael lays everything out in steps, but don't let that intimidate you like it did me at first.

You can do it one of two ways. You can create your multicam clip first, build your multicam project as usual and then create and add your compound clip to the multicam project last. Or, you can simply create your compound audio clip first, then create your multicam clip using your compound clip as your main audio "camera angle"

The first time I experimented with this, I created my compound audio clip after I already had a multicam project created.

From the event browser, command-select all of the associated clips (i.e. camera angles and separate audio soundtracks from your H4's or what have you) and chose to sync those clips to create a new compound clip. Once you have created your compound clip, you may want to insert markers or other type of meta data if you wish indicating where specific portions of your different sections start, just as a reference point mind you, not for any kind of syncing purposes) then break apart clip items (audio and video) and delete the video portions. You can then simply add your compound clip to your existing multicam project, sync it to the monitoring track and use the new compound audio clip as your main soundtrack. You further manipulate your audio by opening the audio up into the timeline and adding audio key frames to edit your multiple track soundtrack as desired.

For others reading this, again, it's not as complicated as it sounds. You just need to ensure you have a good understanding of how to sync clips using audio to create then edit compound clips, add angles to and sync the new angle to your multicam clip, and manipulate your audio in the timeline of the multicam clip. If you don't know how to do any of that then your SOL and you need to purchase some basic FCPX training. I would suggest Ripple Training, or the FCPX courses at MacProVideo.com. Just remember, you get out of it what you're willing to put into it. Thanks again for the direction there Michael!
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Old May 19th, 2012, 08:26 PM   #28
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Frame increments vs audio

First off: I've never done multicam but that's on my list of things to do so I have an interest in this discussion. Also, most of the discussion here involves steps I've yet to take and; consequently, don't fully understand.

However, in following this thread there has been a thought that I keep thinking of and wondered if it would be of any help.

The video is recorded in increments, a frame at a time (as I understand it). One can "zoom in", so to speak, and view each single frame in the video line.

The audio, I think, is recorded continuously. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I look at my track the audio appears to be continuous.

So, if one tried to insert a B-cam video track it would seem that it would have to be a full frame and not a partial. Would this be correct? If so, If the B-cam frame rate wasn't sync'd exactly the same as the main camera, then there would be a minuscule amount of audio time difference at each end of the inserted video track. Did I explain this okay?

If the first and last frame of the inserted track is butted end-to-end with the main track and not overlapped, the would have to be some audio time difference.

Fortunately I don't have to worry about these details for now as I've got other problems to work on. Hope this provides some thought without throwing the thread off course.
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Old May 26th, 2012, 03:20 PM   #29
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Re: Can't use FCPX's new Multicam Functionality Until I Figure THIS Out......

I've only tried one project in FCPX using multiple audio sources and it gave me fits. I have a rare wedding tomorrow and I've been trying to decide whether it's worth it or not to even try it in X. I feel like I'm taking a huge step backwards, but I'll load it up and see what happens.

Thanks for the info Michael.
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