Multicam with 14 cameras in X. at DVinfo.net

Bill Davis · October 19th, 2012, 03:16 PM

I did a Jazz music project some months back with 14 cameras (7 DSLRs and 7 GoPros) and edited the result in FCP-X.

If you want to check it out - my Vimeo account has the final edit posted here:

William Hohauser · October 19th, 2012, 04:47 PM

All 14 in a multicam sequence?

Warren Kawamoto · October 19th, 2012, 09:56 PM

Yikes, the percussion shots are way out of sync, and the piano is lagging 2 or 3 frames behind the beat.

Ed Fiebke · October 20th, 2012, 02:57 PM

First. . . I want to say that it was sheer pleasure watching that video. The music, of course, was wonderful. But the video itself, with all 14 cameras doing their thing, was nicely put together; it was well-crafted. It seemed that everything was in sync. I was impressed by this, too.

I've done only one very modest multicam (only 2 cameras) project with Final Cut Pro X. Once I figured it all out, all went smoothly. I'm still learning Final Cut Pro X. Got much more to learn. Watching this video that you made brings me hope that anytime spent learning yet another program is productive time spent.

Back to your video. . . it brought back memories of my Berklee College years. (2012 marks my 30th anniversary from graduating from that college.) I love jazz. Your video seemed to capture those instantly inspired moments one feels when "jamming" with the other musicians. Being a keyboardist, I really enjoyed getting a nice close-up of the pianist in your video. I also like the way you positioned one of the cameras on the guitar to get THAT close-up shot of the guitarist playing. Again, your video was just a delight to watch! (It's been a LONG time since I played in a jazz ensemble. Please forgive me for acting upon a sentimental moment as I type out this post.)

Appreciate you sharing the talent. . . .

Nigel Barker · October 24th, 2012, 11:42 AM

What system did you edit on? Did you convert all to ProRes or use proxies or have any other special tricks for handling so many camera in a multicam sequence?

I have been struggling with a Jewish wedding ceremony that we shot with 2 GoPros, a C300, XF105 & 3 DSLRs. Way too many cameras really but I would like to use shots from all of them & multicam looks like the quickest way or at least it should be except it's unusably slow changing views on my 2008 dual quad 2.8GHz Mac Pro with 12GB RAM & Nvidia GTX285 graphics card.

Bill Davis · October 24th, 2012, 12:04 PM

First off, thanks everyone for the replies.

I'll try to answer some of the questions here.

Yes, William - when I did the Angle Viewer switch I had all 14 cameras plus the audio track in the Multi-cam viewer playing simultaneously.

Warren, I completely understand your comment. Sometimes, when I watch this, I wonder if something has gone out of sync. But whenever I look at the audio pulses using FCP-X's subframe accurate tools, they're spot on. I wonder if it's a file transfer issue of whatever system you're playing it back on?

Ed - thanks so much for that. I'm going to pass the comment on to the young musicians. This is why we do projects like this - art is always at it's best when it connects emotionally with an audience. That you were moved is a huge tribute to the effort - thanks so much for posting that reply.

Nigel, It was cut on my MacBook Pro i7 (the purchased a month before the Thunderbolt models came out, drat!) Yes, conversion to Proxy's was critical with that many cameras.

I've written a lengthy article on the workflow for this project - I sent it to Chris here - who sometimes publishes my work. I haven't heard back from him about it, but if nothing else, I'll get around to putting the PDFs up somewhere. When I do, I'll try to stop back and link to it for those who are very interested in multi-cam workflows.

Curt Pair · October 24th, 2012, 12:46 PM

Bill,

HOW AWESOME! I'd expect NOTHING less from you! Long time, no see! I'd love to work together again some time.

Christian Brown · October 25th, 2012, 06:34 AM

Thanks for sharing, Bill!

Who was the audio engineer for the gig?

Cheers.

Bill Davis · October 25th, 2012, 12:48 PM

Ray Berry at Affinity Productions here in Phoenix.

The quality is all his. Any issues in mixing or layback are me. His tracks were clean as a whistle.

Dave Partington · November 11th, 2012, 05:05 PM

Great video to watch :) I do agree with others that some of the frames are out of sync. Merely looking at the wave form is not 100% accurate, sometimes they need interpretation and manual adjustment. It happens :) Try making some manual adjustments and see how it looks. It is looks right on the video but not on the waveform, sometimes you just have to accept that :)

One question: I love the go-pro guitar shot - how did you mount that to the guitar head?

John Nantz · November 11th, 2012, 09:42 PM

Bill - VERY impressive! That's a technical feat putting choreographing even just the cameras!

Were the camera shots planned out ahead of time, like maybe a storyboard, or did the videographers just do their thing and then you edited?

Doing a multi-camera shoot is on my To-Do list but I'm having a really difficult time just keeping up with just a single camera workload. Just did a single-camera shoot this afternoon and forgot my XLR pigtail that goes from the mic to the preamp and had to improvise with a different mic that wasn't as good. Two cameras just adds to the complexity, and then 14 cameras??? I'm impressed.

Watching your video gives me some incentive to get crackin' with a multi-cam shoot but I've got so much in the way of ~ basics to learn yet in FCPX.

Bill Davis · November 11th, 2012, 10:46 PM

To Dave and John,

Thanks for the comments.

I wrote up a more comprehensive article about the shoot including a lot of "on set" photos and have sent it off to Chris H.

So look for a more detailed breakdown of the shoot including some detail on my strategy and planning coming up in the Feature Articles here on DVInfo shortly.

John Nantz · November 12th, 2012, 12:20 AM

The suggestion that there be an area for multi-cam shoots sounds good and since FCPX is so good for that it would be good to have it in this area "Apple / Mac Post Production Solutions". However, it's not all "Post" because there [is][should be][may be] some "Pre" involved.

With the new upgrades in X I'm sure there will be some more people coming on-board and using it for their editing and multi-cam will just grow.

On the other hand, I've tried to suggest that "Audio" have some sub-sections but 'management' doesn't seem to be interested. Or, maybe there is some committee working on it that I'm unaware of. In the case of Audio it is a well established section with lots of visitors and posters and it wouldn't take much to come up with a few 'sub' areas.

In the case of multicam it would really be a new area but multicam really adds to the viewing pleasure. And, with more people having more than one camera it is much easier to have a B-roll. I bought my second camera just to get some of the accessories that came with it, now I'm anxious to use it for a B-roll camera.

October 19th, 2012, 03:16 PM	#1
Bill Davis Trustee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260 Posts: 1,538	Multicam with 14 cameras in X. I did a Jazz music project some months back with 14 cameras (7 DSLRs and 7 GoPros) and edited the result in FCP-X. If you want to check it out - my Vimeo account has the final edit posted here: Vimeo __________________ Classroom editing instructor? Check out www.starteditingnow.com Turnkey editor training content including licensed training footage for classroom use.

October 19th, 2012, 04:47 PM	#2
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	Re: Multicam with 14 cameras in X. All 14 in a multicam sequence? __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

October 19th, 2012, 09:56 PM	#3
Warren Kawamoto Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,435	Re: Multicam with 14 cameras in X. Yikes, the percussion shots are way out of sync, and the piano is lagging 2 or 3 frames behind the beat.

October 20th, 2012, 02:57 PM	#4
Ed Fiebke Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New Lebanon, New York Posts: 240	Re: Multicam with 14 cameras in X. First. . . I want to say that it was sheer pleasure watching that video. The music, of course, was wonderful. But the video itself, with all 14 cameras doing their thing, was nicely put together; it was well-crafted. It seemed that everything was in sync. I was impressed by this, too. I've done only one very modest multicam (only 2 cameras) project with Final Cut Pro X. Once I figured it all out, all went smoothly. I'm still learning Final Cut Pro X. Got much more to learn. Watching this video that you made brings me hope that anytime spent learning yet another program is productive time spent. Back to your video. . . it brought back memories of my Berklee College years. (2012 marks my 30th anniversary from graduating from that college.) I love jazz. Your video seemed to capture those instantly inspired moments one feels when "jamming" with the other musicians. Being a keyboardist, I really enjoyed getting a nice close-up of the pianist in your video. I also like the way you positioned one of the cameras on the guitar to get THAT close-up shot of the guitarist playing. Again, your video was just a delight to watch! (It's been a LONG time since I played in a jazz ensemble. Please forgive me for acting upon a sentimental moment as I type out this post.) Appreciate you sharing the talent. . . . __________________ iMac Pro (3.2 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon W ): OS X 10.15.6; 64 GBs RAM; Radeon Pro Vega 64X 16 GB graphics; 2 TB internal SSD; 3 external SSDs; MOTU 828ES

October 24th, 2012, 11:42 AM	#5
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	Re: Multicam with 14 cameras in X. What system did you edit on? Did you convert all to ProRes or use proxies or have any other special tricks for handling so many camera in a multicam sequence? I have been struggling with a Jewish wedding ceremony that we shot with 2 GoPros, a C300, XF105 & 3 DSLRs. Way too many cameras really but I would like to use shots from all of them & multicam looks like the quickest way or at least it should be except it's unusably slow changing views on my 2008 dual quad 2.8GHz Mac Pro with 12GB RAM & Nvidia GTX285 graphics card.

October 24th, 2012, 12:04 PM	#6
Bill Davis Trustee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260 Posts: 1,538	Re: Multicam with 14 cameras in X. First off, thanks everyone for the replies. I'll try to answer some of the questions here. Yes, William - when I did the Angle Viewer switch I had all 14 cameras plus the audio track in the Multi-cam viewer playing simultaneously. Warren, I completely understand your comment. Sometimes, when I watch this, I wonder if something has gone out of sync. But whenever I look at the audio pulses using FCP-X's subframe accurate tools, they're spot on. I wonder if it's a file transfer issue of whatever system you're playing it back on? Ed - thanks so much for that. I'm going to pass the comment on to the young musicians. This is why we do projects like this - art is always at it's best when it connects emotionally with an audience. That you were moved is a huge tribute to the effort - thanks so much for posting that reply. Nigel, It was cut on my MacBook Pro i7 (the purchased a month before the Thunderbolt models came out, drat!) Yes, conversion to Proxy's was critical with that many cameras. I've written a lengthy article on the workflow for this project - I sent it to Chris here - who sometimes publishes my work. I haven't heard back from him about it, but if nothing else, I'll get around to putting the PDFs up somewhere. When I do, I'll try to stop back and link to it for those who are very interested in multi-cam workflows. __________________ Classroom editing instructor? Check out www.starteditingnow.com Turnkey editor training content including licensed training footage for classroom use.

October 24th, 2012, 12:46 PM	#7
Curt Pair Tourist Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2	Re: Multicam with 14 cameras in X. Bill, HOW AWESOME! I'd expect NOTHING less from you! Long time, no see! I'd love to work together again some time.

October 25th, 2012, 06:34 AM	#8
Christian Brown Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 194	Re: Multicam with 14 cameras in X. Thanks for sharing, Bill! Who was the audio engineer for the gig? Cheers. __________________ http://artslaureate.com/, http://facebook.com/ArtsLaureate http://www.christianamonson.com/

October 25th, 2012, 12:48 PM	#9
Bill Davis Trustee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260 Posts: 1,538	Re: Multicam with 14 cameras in X. Ray Berry at Affinity Productions here in Phoenix. The quality is all his. Any issues in mixing or layback are me. His tracks were clean as a whistle. __________________ Classroom editing instructor? Check out www.starteditingnow.com Turnkey editor training content including licensed training footage for classroom use.

November 11th, 2012, 05:05 PM	#10
Dave Partington Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: York, England Posts: 1,323	Re: Multicam with 14 cameras in X. Great video to watch :) I do agree with others that some of the frames are out of sync. Merely looking at the wave form is not 100% accurate, sometimes they need interpretation and manual adjustment. It happens :) Try making some manual adjustments and see how it looks. It is looks right on the video but not on the waveform, sometimes you just have to accept that :) One question: I love the go-pro guitar shot - how did you mount that to the guitar head? __________________ Qualified UAV Pilot with CAA PFAW Aerial Photo / Aerial Video \| Corporate Video Production

November 11th, 2012, 09:42 PM	#11
John Nantz Trustee Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 1,252	Re: Multicam with 14 cameras in X. Bill - VERY impressive! That's a technical feat putting choreographing even just the cameras! Were the camera shots planned out ahead of time, like maybe a storyboard, or did the videographers just do their thing and then you edited? Doing a multi-camera shoot is on my To-Do list but I'm having a really difficult time just keeping up with just a single camera workload. Just did a single-camera shoot this afternoon and forgot my XLR pigtail that goes from the mic to the preamp and had to improvise with a different mic that wasn't as good. Two cameras just adds to the complexity, and then 14 cameras??? I'm impressed. Watching your video gives me some incentive to get crackin' with a multi-cam shoot but I've got so much in the way of ~ basics to learn yet in FCPX.

November 11th, 2012, 10:46 PM	#12
Bill Davis Trustee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260 Posts: 1,538	Re: Multicam with 14 cameras in X. To Dave and John, Thanks for the comments. I wrote up a more comprehensive article about the shoot including a lot of "on set" photos and have sent it off to Chris H. So look for a more detailed breakdown of the shoot including some detail on my strategy and planning coming up in the Feature Articles here on DVInfo shortly. __________________ Classroom editing instructor? Check out www.starteditingnow.com Turnkey editor training content including licensed training footage for classroom use.

November 12th, 2012, 12:20 AM	#13
John Nantz Trustee Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 1,252	Re: Multicam with 14 cameras in X. The suggestion that there be an area for multi-cam shoots sounds good and since FCPX is so good for that it would be good to have it in this area "Apple / Mac Post Production Solutions". However, it's not all "Post" because there [is][should be][may be] some "Pre" involved. With the new upgrades in X I'm sure there will be some more people coming on-board and using it for their editing and multi-cam will just grow. On the other hand, I've tried to suggest that "Audio" have some sub-sections but 'management' doesn't seem to be interested. Or, maybe there is some committee working on it that I'm unaware of. In the case of Audio it is a well established section with lots of visitors and posters and it wouldn't take much to come up with a few 'sub' areas. In the case of multicam it would really be a new area but multicam really adds to the viewing pleasure. And, with more people having more than one camera it is much easier to have a B-roll. I bought my second camera just to get some of the accessories that came with it, now I'm anxious to use it for a B-roll camera.