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Old January 27th, 2013, 04:31 PM   #1
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I prefer the features in Vegas over FCP X

I finally broke down and bought a Mac with FCPX after year of using Sony Vegas. I am starting to think this is the editing software for people who do not know better.

Complaints:
It takes multiple steps to do a simple splitting of a clip. Why not a keyboard command that just splits the clip where the tape head is? This is one step rather than selecting blade, moving to your cut point and then select another select tool?

Inability to re-size timeline zoom from the scroll bar. You have to move to the slider and then go back to the scroll bar.

No "revert" from transform changes.

No quick way to resync audio to video if you lose your place.

Audio manipulation that is difficult to use and confusing

No master controls for each audio track or video track. Changes need to be made by individual clips or by selecting all the clips in the timeline track.

Disolves that require multiple steps rather than just dragging the clips over each other

No macro ability to combine steps

Buttons on the screen that I will never use and no ability to customize them.

Constant need to change selection tools.

Many things that are simple and quick to do in Vegas takes multiple steps with FCP

Terrible audio manipulation. No easy way to work with two separate audio tracks. This may explain why so many videos I watch which were edited with FCP have awful audio.

I am missing why people think this is a better program over Vegas?
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Old January 27th, 2013, 05:42 PM   #2
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re: I prefer the features in Vegas over FCP X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Forman View Post
Inability to re-size timeline zoom from the scroll bar. You have to move to the slider and then go back to the scroll bar.
Use "Cmd +" to zoom in on the timeline and "Cmd -" to zoom out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Forman View Post
No "revert" from transform changes.
On the top far right of the Transform box there is a curved arrow to reset the Transform parameters. Alternately, there is an arrow that will appear to the right of that if you hover your cursor over it and one of the selections is "Reset Parameter". Or you can use "undo" a few times (Cmd Z).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Forman View Post
Disolves that require multiple steps rather than just dragging the clips over each other
The shortcut for a cross dissolve is "Cmd T".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Forman View Post
No easy way to work with two separate audio tracks.
Can you explain what you mean a little more? Do you mean two separate tracks within a clip or are you referring to the master tracks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Forman View Post
Many things that are simple and quick to do in Vegas takes multiple steps with FCP
Perhaps a moderator can re-title this thread to "I prefer the features in Vegas over FCP X". To say that FCP X, since the release of 10.0.7, is "horrible" spreads false data about a greatly improved program (since its initial release). I've spent several months evaluating Premiere Pro (doing a large number of tutorials and learning shortcuts) and then FCP X since the release of 10.0.6, which I wouldn't touch for a professional job until they finally added in the features of 10.0.6 (again doing a large number of tutorials and learning shortcuts).

I've found a lot to like about both, but I'm going to use FCP X on my next job because last week I had one full day and night of editing (including making 77 animations and editing them into the timeline, amongst about 300 other things) and I found, to my great surprise, how blazingly fast I could edit in FCP X. Once you really take the trouble to learn it, it is quite "smart" and "intuitive" when compared to either Prem Pro or my old FCP 6. I'd love to evaluate Vegas but, unfortunately, Sony only make a PC version, as far as I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Forman View Post
I am missing why people think this is a better program over Vegas?
I've heard nothing but good things about Vegas. Are you sure that "people" have actually said that? Can you provide any links?
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Old January 27th, 2013, 06:05 PM   #3
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re: I prefer the features in Vegas over FCP X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Forman View Post
It takes multiple steps to do a simple splitting of a clip. Why not a keyboard command that just splits the clip where the tape head is? This is one step rather than selecting blade, moving to your cut point and then select another select tool?
Try CMD+B to blade at the skimmer.

Try holding B while clicking on the clip then let go of B. This gives you a temporary blade (while ever the key is held) and reverts to your previous tool when you let go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Forman View Post
No "revert" from transform changes.
CMD+Z ?

OK - this is not aimed at the OP, but at people in general who complain about FCPX, Premiere Pro, Vegas, Avid etc when coming to it fresh.

It seems that most of the problems people find with FCPX (and others) is that they have been used to some other software for a reasonably long time, and after years of use take what they learned over a long period of time for granted, forgetting how long it took for those actions to become second nature.

They then expect to pick up new software (like FCPX) at the drop of a hat and having not the read the manual, and things not being smack in their face, say these things can't be done!

There are functions in FCPX that simply don't exist in other software, IF you take the time to learn them. FCPX can actually help edit some types of video much quicker than any other software I've used (and I've used a lot).

IMO, FCPX's weakest point at this time is still audio. I want studio style meters for each 'track'.

Working with audio can be done. It's just different. I've seen lots of films from just about ever NLE you care to mention with poor sound, probably because most novice editors have no idea what they are doing.

Don't blame the tools, learn how to use them :)

Since FCP7, we bought FCPX and put it down, until 10.0.6, when to me it became something finally worth using. We've been running Premiere Pro (CS5, 5.5 & 6) almost exclusively for longer projects, but now we're moving more of the work over to FCPX because it's saving us lots of time.

There are still some quirks, and yes I still prefer the audio workflow in Premiere Pro, but I just produced a 50 min documentary in FCPX and it saved me literally hours. We did an export comparison between FCPX and Premiere Pro (we used Xto7 to transfer it) with similar colour and effects applied. Export from Premiere Pro - 3hrs 19mins 52s. Export from FCPX 14m36s. Now that was 3 hours saved right there! We were also up and editing faster because we didn't have to conform all the audio either! The metadata saved us time looking for clips and really the only thing that slowed me down was some of the audio features. Even so, we saved several hours and I'd do it all again if I had to.
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Old January 27th, 2013, 06:22 PM   #4
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Re: I prefer the features in Vegas over FCP X

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Knaggs View Post
Perhaps a moderator can re-title this thread to "I prefer the features in Vegas over FCP X".
Thanks for the suggestion! Done.
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Old January 27th, 2013, 07:13 PM   #5
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Re: I prefer the features in Vegas over FCP X

Database vs. file or document base: FCP X is a databased application and that is different from the file/document based applications and this organization takes a different mindset.

For programs that can use a database system there can be huge advantages, but it does definitely take a different thinking cap.

As for how one does certain things, if one is accustomed to one way it can be very difficult to learn a new method. Ever since Multimate (remember that?), Word 2.0, DOS 2.0, etc., then upgrading to Windows 3.11, it has always been difficult for me to take on the new system. Frankly, I still like Multimate for many things although I haven't used it in .... years. Many years. It was a good secretary's program while Word is good for paper and magazine editors. The secretary never had to do word-wrapping.

I've been with X since the 0.3 version and when it was getting really bashed vs 7, but the guys (and gals) working on it have made some great improvements and I doubt they're done yet.

Now, if I want to bash something, it'd be Corel and Roxio. Their corporate un-friendliness un-support has got to be among the worst ever. Well, okay, I'll leave it at that. I'm looking at alternatives to Toast.
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Old January 27th, 2013, 09:40 PM   #6
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Re: I prefer the features in Vegas over FCP X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Forman View Post
I am missing why people think this is a better program over Vegas?
Yes. Yes you are. Well, not specifically Vegas which I've never personally used. I know many people LOVE Vegas. Just as many people LOVE AVID. And many people LOVE Premier.

Which is great. They are all excellent editing programs. But so is X. Really.

I can't speak for software I don't use - but I can address why I'm really grateful that I switched to X after 11 years as a FCP-version 1-7 editor.

Basically, I get a LOT more done a LOT faster now. I LOVE the new thinking and the new tools. I know how to ROCK the magnetic timeline. I LOVE the database. I LOVE the two stage design where I can do work (including even EDITING!) in the Event Browser and re-use that work in all my projects!

I LOVE the asset management and keywords. Used wisely, it can take the most complex footage organization problem and drive it to it's knees.

The image quality in X is also MUCH improved. (I think when they dumped the wheezing, old Quicktime in favor of AV Foundation, a world of compromises were swept away, and now whether you're editing with RED files, DSLR files, or iPhone files - the quality of your source footage is maintained across all your subsequent composites and operations, beautifully.

I've completed about forty paid projects to date with X and you'd essentially have to knock me unconscious to take it off my desktop or laptop machines - I consider it just THAT good as a general purpose video editing package.

Yes, it takes time and effort and even UN-learning old muscle memory - along with learning new ideas and workflow concepts to use.

But once you're comfortable with it - it FLIES.

A BBC editor who frequents another board where I post is cutting a weekly TV show with it in England, and posted the other day that he was able to get the latest episode done and get home to his wife and kids EARLY for the first time in memory.

I could go on - but I think that's enough.
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Old January 27th, 2013, 10:18 PM   #7
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Re: I prefer the features in Vegas over FCP X

In defense of FCP X - the media management has become much better, something I wish Vegas would add.

But (for me) the timeline in Vegas is still much better thought out in terms of the person doing the Edit. And even now, when ever I sit down to use FCP X I still wistfully dream about using the Vegas timeline.
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Old January 27th, 2013, 10:39 PM   #8
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Re: I prefer the features in Vegas over FCP X

Hi Michael.

Do you think it's worth starting a sticky thread called "Requested Features/Improvements for FCP X"?

As FCP X is constantly being worked on by the folk at Apple and they really do seem to be listening to their customer base at this time, perhaps an easy-to-find sticky might be a good idea.

No "belly-aching"-type posts. Just the facts of what feature you'd like added or the bug that you'd like fixed as an improvement.

It might help turn all of our "wistful dreams" into reality.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 07:56 AM   #9
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Re: I prefer the features in Vegas over FCP X

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Knaggs View Post
Do you think it's worth starting a sticky thread called "Requested Features/Improvements for FCP X"?

...

No "belly-aching"-type posts. Just the facts of what feature you'd like added or the bug that you'd like fixed as an improvement.
I think that's a terrific idea! By all means, let's get this going.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 09:53 AM   #10
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Re: I prefer the features in Vegas over FCP X

Vegas had, up through version 9, an asset management add-on product which you downloaded separately. It required a runtime/lite version of MS SQL. A few years ago this failed to install correctly and I could never get it working again. Didn't open a support call which I would have done if I seriously thought it would help my projects.

Now that I am transitioning over to FCPX and have finished my first major project, I wish I had fixed the Vegas Media Manager. I have a 2 hour 20 minute DVD with lots of assets and the tagging was a big help. Overall I am very satisfied with the value of FCPX at $300. Multicam clips are great for organizing and editing the 3 cameras I used and once I understood compound clips, rendering out pieces of the show was easy.

I did buy one add-on, HyColour, to attempt a match of cameras. Toward the end of the edit I thought about the free Black Magic color app but didn't want to stop and learn it at that point.

I think the sound quality achieved with the CD tracks I used was better than Vegas. Since I captured via HDMI to ProRes, the camera files were 5X what I had with Vegas. This was necessary due to a 1394 hardware failure on the sole tape unit I have on hand. There has been a learning curve but between Ripple training and a liberal use of the manual, old dog-new tricks magic occurred. Not something I would want to do with a hard deadline of course.
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Last edited by Chip Gallo; January 28th, 2013 at 09:59 AM. Reason: refine Media Manager timeline
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Old January 28th, 2013, 07:25 PM   #11
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Re: I prefer the features in Vegas over FCP X

It seems that most complaints about FCPX comes from people that expect it to work just like all other editors, and aren't willing to really try to learn the way FCPX works.
It's their loss, FCPX is one of the most inspiring pplications I've ever used. All categories.

Now I hope they do the same kind of make over with Logic Pro. And make it the perfect audio companion for FCPX.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 04:22 PM   #12
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Re: I prefer the features in Vegas over FCP X

Please direct your replies to this thread:

Requested Features/Improvements for FCP X

Thanks, all!
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