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Old October 2nd, 2008, 10:09 PM   #1
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How was this done?

I've been watching the new show "Fringe" and really like something they are doing. Whenever they are in a new town or location, they place 3D text into the scene. The text isn't photorealistic and actually doesn't look that great, but they do track it with the scene, so it looks like it belongs.
If you watch the first few minutes of any episode on Hulu (Hulu - Fringe), you will see what I'm talking about. I need to know how difficult this is and what I would need to do it with.
Any thoughts?
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 01:36 AM   #2
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3 D Titling

If you are on a Mac platform, and have access to Final Cut Studio 2 "Live Type," it should be up for the job.

For details, go to Apple's site or their retail outlet for a demo.

Good Luck,

John
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 03:53 AM   #3
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PFhoe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Dyle View Post
Any thoughts?
I'm a Brit, so I can't watch Hulu, so I have to guess from what you're describing.

Check out PFHoue (PFHoe - A Pixel Farm Product) and an illustration of it in use:

http://www.pfhoe.com/images/PFHoe_Pro.mov

You end up with a Motion 3d project.

Time consuming, but cool and surprisingly cheap!
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 08:28 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Daviss View Post
I'm a Brit, so I can't watch Hulu, so I have to guess from what you're describing.

Check out PFHoue (PFHoe - A Pixel Farm Product) and an illustration of it in use:

http://www.pfhoe.com/images/PFHoe_Pro.mov

You end up with a Motion 3d project.

Time consuming, but cool and surprisingly cheap!
Looks like a nice piece of software Matt. How does that fit around the hierarchy of After Effects and Motion 3 (3D)? Currently shopping around for a 3D motion tool and will either upgrade to FCS2 (which I'll probably do anyway) or look into AE (awaiting a trail run from the Adobe site).
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 08:53 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by David Scattergood View Post
will either upgrade to FCS2 (which I'll probably do anyway) or look into AE (awaiting a trail run from the Adobe site).
PFhoe works with all platforms, AE included.

As for AE, I'll come clean and admit that having started with After Effects at 3.0 many eons ago, I've since abandoned it in favour of Motion. It's taken 18 months to wean myself off and have now delete After Effects from my system. AE is for Motion Graphics, and that is a profession in and of its self. AE is now too big and scary for me, an editor, to handle.

Motion is frustrating, too keen to use presets, fiddly and generally not to an AE person's taste, but I found AE unfathomable, then horrible when I started. Then it became awesome. Motion is, I know, awesome. Yet I have so far lacked the project that forces me to totally start from scratch and produce something better than what I could have done in AE six years ago.

But it must be said that I've done plenty of journeyman stuff in Motion that became a joy that would have been tedium in After Effects. On the basis I am an editor, not a Motion Graphics designer.
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 09:30 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Daviss View Post
PFhoe works with all platforms, AE included.

As for AE, I'll come clean and admit that having started with After Effects at 3.0 many eons ago, I've since abandoned it in favour of Motion. It's taken 18 months to wean myself off and have now delete After Effects from my system. AE is for Motion Graphics, and that is a profession in and of its self. AE is now too big and scary for me, an editor, to handle.

Motion is frustrating, too keen to use presets, fiddly and generally not to an AE person's taste, but I found AE unfathomable, then horrible when I started. Then it became awesome. Motion is, I know, awesome. Yet I have so far lacked the project that forces me to totally start from scratch and produce something better than what I could have done in AE six years ago.

But it must be said that I've done plenty of journeyman stuff in Motion that became a joy that would have been tedium in After Effects. On the basis I am an editor, not a Motion Graphics designer.
I've yet to dip my fingers into AE - hopefully Adobe will allow me a promised trial. However, I've heard pretty much the same response to AE as the one from you above. So until I give it a whirl I can hardly comment. Saying that, I think with the added apps and updates in FCS2 (and with Motion 3D) I'll probably be content enough to flex those muscles without giving myself more headaches (I used Logic Pro for music also...my brains are almost running on empty).
Curious about where PFhoe fits in i.e. could I use it to stretch Motion combined with FCP further?...and it is a 'liter' version of AE? I guess it depending on where the final content is headed - 3D motion in short film/film can look ridiculous if even there's a sniff of non genuine looking graphics at play.
I'll second your views on Motion in as much as there is a tendency, initially, to use all those presets. But I'm quite fond of the SW now - I trust the upgrade to 3 is even more 'fun'?

Cheers.
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 09:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Scattergood View Post
Curious about where PFhoe fits in i.e. could I use it to stretch Motion combined with FCP further?...and it is a 'liter' version of AE?
PFhoe is a little pocket tool that does one thing very well, a sort of bottle opener, if you like. As such it sits next door to many bigger tools: AE, Shake, Flame, you name it.

Feed it your single shot scene. Walk it through the process of what goes on in that shot. It tracks, works out the angle of the lens, the position in 3d (the maths involved is mind bending), you help it ignore stuff, concentrate on others, help it work out where the ground is.

Once you're done, it spits out a Motion 3d camera or file or something. In motion, you can position objects, models or graphics in the 3d space it provides using your original movie as a backdrop. The Motion camera tracks around inside this space to match what's happening in the movie behind.

Can you imagine the maths to work all this stuff out? I started to think about it and needed a little lie down in a darkened room.

You then need to animate garbage mattes to help your faux objects move behind real stuff in the background. General 'things that go bump in the scene' stuff.

And in the end you render it out, and bingo! Big floaty PowerPoint slides hover 4 feet in the air as your presenter walks into a modernist plaza and the camera swings round to frame a nice wide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Scattergood View Post
I trust the upgrade to 3 is even more 'fun'?
I was unable to use v1. The bug fix (aka 2.0) was an interesting toy which some very talented people taught it to do some amazing stuff, but mere mortals were left dazed and confused by the tutorials - the secret's in the keyframes! Yes! Motion does keyframes just like AE! Now in version 3, as an AE Boring Old Fart, I am happy. I also love the template functions for FCP - put text or image placeholders into your Motion project, so in FCP, you just drag duplicate on the sequence, change the stuff in the text or image boxes. No multiple versions of the same Motion file. Client doesn't like the wipe on? Change the template and all are done. That's quality of life.
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 02:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Daviss View Post
PFhoe is a little pocket tool that does one thing very well, a sort of bottle opener, if you like. As such it sits next door to many bigger tools: AE, Shake, Flame, you name it.

Feed it your single shot scene. Walk it through the process of what goes on in that shot. It tracks, works out the angle of the lens, the position in 3d (the maths involved is mind bending), you help it ignore stuff, concentrate on others, help it work out where the ground is.

Once you're done, it spits out a Motion 3d camera or file or something. In motion, you can position objects, models or graphics in the 3d space it provides using your original movie as a backdrop. The Motion camera tracks around inside this space to match what's happening in the movie behind.

Can you imagine the maths to work all this stuff out? I started to think about it and needed a little lie down in a darkened room.

You then need to animate garbage mattes to help your faux objects move behind real stuff in the background. General 'things that go bump in the scene' stuff.

And in the end you render it out, and bingo! Big floaty PowerPoint slides hover 4 feet in the air as your presenter walks into a modernist plaza and the camera swings round to frame a nice wide.



I was unable to use v1. The bug fix (aka 2.0) was an interesting toy which some very talented people taught it to do some amazing stuff, but mere mortals were left dazed and confused by the tutorials - the secret's in the keyframes! Yes! Motion does keyframes just like AE! Now in version 3, as an AE Boring Old Fart, I am happy. I also love the template functions for FCP - put text or image placeholders into your Motion project, so in FCP, you just drag duplicate on the sequence, change the stuff in the text or image boxes. No multiple versions of the same Motion file. Client doesn't like the wipe on? Change the template and all are done. That's quality of life.
Thanks for the post Matt - food for thought indeed. When I upgrade to FCS2 (with Motion 3) I'll look more into PHhoe - 49 seems a good price, and shake isn't much more expensive these days (do you use Shake by the way?)

Aye...keyframes make me happy and I quite like the 'record' function in Motion for keying. The green screening worked pretty well for me too. Now fumbling with the matting/shape/bezier tool over the weekend...hopefully it will be in my head by sunday :)

cheers.
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 02:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Scattergood View Post
The green screening worked pretty well for me too.
Sorry to others for this Off Topic thread drift, but @David: please do check out DV Matte Pro:

dvGarage Product - dvmattep3

It combines Chromakey with extracting detail from luminance and other tricks, then uses your GPU for super-fast previews and renders. You'll rave about it too when you've tried it.
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 02:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Daviss View Post
Sorry to others for this Off Topic thread drift, but @David: please do check out DV Matte Pro:

dvGarage Product - dvmattep3

It combines Chromakey with extracting detail from luminance and other tricks, then uses your GPU for super-fast previews and renders. You'll rave about it too when you've tried it.
Thanks Matt - will take a look, although was pretty pleased with the results from a combination of FCP and Motion for chroma-keying (utilising HDV via the HD100)...always looking to perfect stuff mind :)
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 04:26 PM   #11
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AE can do this with ease. 3D space and motion tracking is how it's done
Best thing to do is goolge After effects tutorials montion tracking you will find your answer.
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 06:52 PM   #12
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Great... I click on the link and get stuck watching something interesting! This wouldn't have happened of X-Files were still around.
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 08:08 PM   #13
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The guy who actually is working on the show and is responsible for the effect is Andrew Kramer. He also works over at video copilot.net, and right when i was watching the show i was like, "i can do that!" Nice little AE tutorial: VideoCopilot.net Video Tutorials & Post Production
looks like its that one, but i could be wrong, its somewhere on videocopilot.
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Old October 4th, 2008, 04:19 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Loren Simons View Post
The guy who actually is working on the show and is responsible for the effect is Andrew Kramer. He also works over at video copilot.net, and right when i was watching the show i was like, "i can do that!" Nice little AE tutorial: VideoCopilot.net Video Tutorials & Post Production
looks like its that one, but i could be wrong, its somewhere on videocopilot.
Just watched a few of those video copilot tututorials by Andrew (putting my morning schedule behind by an hour or so!). Fascinating, if a little frighteningly complex stuff.
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