DVD production and TV Safe areas at DVinfo.net

Tobin Strickland · February 22nd, 2009, 08:11 PM

Have almost completed my first DVD and by the looks of it...the TV safe area in FCE doesn't always catch everything.

I am using FCE and and iDVD. Burining to wide screen 16:9. The footage is 1920 / 1080i.

So far at least 2 TV sets and dvd players they have projected the image and have cut off at least another 20 - 25% of screen real estate and text inside and past the TV Safe overlays.

Anyway to make the DVD project more consistently on all TV's?

any input would be helpful before I send this to the production company.

Tobin

Noah Kadner · February 22nd, 2009, 08:30 PM

Are you talking about action safe or title safe? I typically put titles well within title safe to account for the wide variances in overscan on consumer TVs. Image is image- not much you can do about that other than next time- frame things closer to screen center, zoom out a hair, etc.

-Noah

Tobin Strickland · February 22nd, 2009, 08:37 PM

I have it all within title safe and it's still cutting off 20% more.

What do the commercial DVD company's do that do 16:9 movies for block buster etc.?

Mitchell Lewis · February 22nd, 2009, 10:27 PM

When converting from HD to SD are you doing Letterbox or Edge-Crop?

Tobin Strickland · February 22nd, 2009, 11:12 PM

I'm letting idvd do the downconvert to SD.

If I letterbox my true 16:9 fottage prior to cutting to dvd will it help? I want the final display to be wide screen just like modern dvd's. Or appear as such on both widescreen tv's or standard 4:3's .

Not sure I know what you mean by edge crop. I am not letterboxing. Should I be?

Mitchell Lewis · February 23rd, 2009, 08:10 AM

Edge crop means that the 16:9 image is "zoomed in" to fill a 4:3 frame completely. But this means that your going to loose the edges of your video because 16:9 is a rectangle shape and 4:3 is more of a square shape. I'm not familiar with the settings in iMovie, but it's worth checking into.

Noah Kadner · February 23rd, 2009, 11:39 AM

If you're working in 16:9- switch from iDVD to DVDSP. Sounds like you're cropping from 16:9 to 4:3 and chopping off big sections of your frame. DVDSP allows you to choose native 16:9 tracks and you'll end up pretty much having the whole image.

Noah

Tobin Strickland · February 23rd, 2009, 03:55 PM

So, if I understand you correctly, IDVD may not have the ability to tell the TV to project the native 16:9 and the TV is trying to project a full frame and include the overscan area. You are saying that DVDSP has the ability to tell the TV to only project the 16:9 to it's full frame and not project to fill the entire TV screen.

Feel like if I edge crop I am really reducing the size of my images...partculary on smaller TV sets. If I letter box the 16:9 and project the letterbox image at 4:3 will it look correct on wide screen TV's as well?

Tobin

Mitchell Lewis · February 23rd, 2009, 08:32 PM

There are three options when going from 16:9 (high def) to standard def 4:3.

1) You can letter box (thin black bars at the top and bottom)
2) You can edge-crop (no black bars, but the sides are cut off a fair amount)
3) You can choose 4:3 anamorphic (I don't have much experience doing this, but basically it stretches the 4:3 image to fill a 16:9 screen. So it's basically the same as burning a standard 4:3 disc and then choosing WIDE on your LCD or Plasma monitor at home)

Tobin Strickland · February 24th, 2009, 10:34 AM

Thanks Mitchel,

I apologize guys, either I am not being clear...or I have no clue. Tell me if I am wrong, actually I am fine admitting to not having a clue. You guys are so awesome.

I could be wrong, but I don't think I am trying to create a 4:3. I say this because I want the DVD to play wide screen on both widescreen and 4:3 television sets.

If I did convert it to 4:3 and letterbox it or make it anamorhic, what would be the resulting image on wide screen TV's?

Mitchell Lewis · February 24th, 2009, 11:33 AM

Maybe this will help. I drew up a little graph that might help visualize things. Let me know if it clears things up.

Tobin Strickland · February 24th, 2009, 10:35 PM

That is awesome. So I guess I need to figure out how to letterbox 16:9 in FCE.

Or is the general consensus to do it in DVD studio pro.

I did find where to do it in iDVD but it requires some export settings I don't quite understand yet.

Thanks.

Mitchell Lewis · February 26th, 2009, 08:14 AM

I would do your letter boxing in Compressor.

February 22nd, 2009, 08:11 PM	#1
Tobin Strickland Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 86	DVD production and TV Safe areas Have almost completed my first DVD and by the looks of it...the TV safe area in FCE doesn't always catch everything. I am using FCE and and iDVD. Burining to wide screen 16:9. The footage is 1920 / 1080i. So far at least 2 TV sets and dvd players they have projected the image and have cut off at least another 20 - 25% of screen real estate and text inside and past the TV Safe overlays. Anyway to make the DVD project more consistently on all TV's? any input would be helpful before I send this to the production company. Tobin

February 22nd, 2009, 08:37 PM	#3
Tobin Strickland Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 86	In Title Safe I have it all within title safe and it's still cutting off 20% more. What do the commercial DVD company's do that do 16:9 movies for block buster etc.?

February 22nd, 2009, 10:27 PM	#4
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	When converting from HD to SD are you doing Letterbox or Edge-Crop? __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

February 22nd, 2009, 11:12 PM	#5
Tobin Strickland Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 86	wide screen I'm letting idvd do the downconvert to SD. If I letterbox my true 16:9 fottage prior to cutting to dvd will it help? I want the final display to be wide screen just like modern dvd's. Or appear as such on both widescreen tv's or standard 4:3's . Not sure I know what you mean by edge crop. I am not letterboxing. Should I be?

February 23rd, 2009, 08:10 AM	#6
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Edge crop means that the 16:9 image is "zoomed in" to fill a 4:3 frame completely. But this means that your going to loose the edges of your video because 16:9 is a rectangle shape and 4:3 is more of a square shape. I'm not familiar with the settings in iMovie, but it's worth checking into. __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

February 22nd, 2009, 08:30 PM	#2
Noah Kadner Better than Halle Berry Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 435	Are you talking about action safe or title safe? I typically put titles well within title safe to account for the wide variances in overscan on consumer TVs. Image is image- not much you can do about that other than next time- frame things closer to screen center, zoom out a hair, etc. -Noah

February 23rd, 2009, 11:39 AM	#7
Noah Kadner Better than Halle Berry Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 435	If you're working in 16:9- switch from iDVD to DVDSP. Sounds like you're cropping from 16:9 to 4:3 and chopping off big sections of your frame. DVDSP allows you to choose native 16:9 tracks and you'll end up pretty much having the whole image. Noah

February 23rd, 2009, 03:55 PM	#8
Tobin Strickland Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 86	So, if I understand you correctly, IDVD may not have the ability to tell the TV to project the native 16:9 and the TV is trying to project a full frame and include the overscan area. You are saying that DVDSP has the ability to tell the TV to only project the 16:9 to it's full frame and not project to fill the entire TV screen. Feel like if I edge crop I am really reducing the size of my images...partculary on smaller TV sets. If I letter box the 16:9 and project the letterbox image at 4:3 will it look correct on wide screen TV's as well? Tobin

February 23rd, 2009, 08:32 PM	#9
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	There are three options when going from 16:9 (high def) to standard def 4:3. 1) You can letter box (thin black bars at the top and bottom) 2) You can edge-crop (no black bars, but the sides are cut off a fair amount) 3) You can choose 4:3 anamorphic (I don't have much experience doing this, but basically it stretches the 4:3 image to fill a 16:9 screen. So it's basically the same as burning a standard 4:3 disc and then choosing WIDE on your LCD or Plasma monitor at home) __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

February 24th, 2009, 10:34 AM	#10
Tobin Strickland Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 86	Thanks Mitchel, I apologize guys, either I am not being clear...or I have no clue. Tell me if I am wrong, actually I am fine admitting to not having a clue. You guys are so awesome. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am trying to create a 4:3. I say this because I want the DVD to play wide screen on both widescreen and 4:3 television sets. If I did convert it to 4:3 and letterbox it or make it anamorhic, what would be the resulting image on wide screen TV's?

February 24th, 2009, 11:33 AM	#11
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Maybe this will help. I drew up a little graph that might help visualize things. Let me know if it clears things up. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor Last edited by Mitchell Lewis; February 25th, 2009 at 07:28 AM.

February 24th, 2009, 10:35 PM	#12
Tobin Strickland Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 86	Dude, thanks. That is awesome. So I guess I need to figure out how to letterbox 16:9 in FCE. Or is the general consensus to do it in DVD studio pro. I did find where to do it in iDVD but it requires some export settings I don't quite understand yet. Thanks.

February 26th, 2009, 08:14 AM	#13
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	I would do your letter boxing in Compressor. __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor