FCP video to projector questions at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Apple / Mac Post Production Solutions > Final Cut Suite

Final Cut Suite
Discussing the editing of all formats with FCS, FCP, FCE


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 26th, 2009, 05:33 PM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 26
FCP video to projector questions

Hope this is the right place to post this:

Seeking a solution or opinions: I have a small 5 min video in a FCP (720x480 DV NTSC Timeline) Have to project this with a standard projector on a white wall for a live music performance.

Option 1 (easy) I could record the timeline back onto my camera (Z1u) and use the component outs of the camera into the VGA port of the projector (using an adaptor) or;

Option 2 (a little more difficult) I could lug my iMac G5 and my Gliph drive over there and play it direct from the timeline out of the video out port of the Mac into the VGA port of the projector.

If the camera option will look good and there is not too much difference between that and option 2, then I'd just as soon go with that since it will save me a lot of hassle and about $45 dollars in cab fare. But if it seems there will be a marked improvement to the projection using the FCP timeline from the iMac to the projector, then I will bite the bullet as I do want it to look good after all I guess.

Thanks very much for any and all input.

Last edited by Duane Harper Grant; February 27th, 2009 at 05:31 PM.
Duane Harper Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2009, 05:46 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 215
Remember that a lot of the quality is going to depend on the projector and the projection surface. If you are projecting onto a basic white wall, it is going to eat a lot of your image, as most regular white walls do not have that high of a reflective index. It could very well render all your extra effort and attention moot.

Can you just burn a DVD and bring a simple DVD player? I have done this by making the menu page one huge black button. That way it is really easy to cue and start, particularly if it is being played by a computer and you need to click with a mouse.

This would be a lot tighter than a camera's tape drive threading up to start.
Frank Simpson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2009, 06:07 PM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 26
Thank you Frank for the reply. That is good information about the wall. I guess in general I can't expect too much. As this is my first experience with projecting video it will be a learning one I am sure.

As far as the dvd goes, I am, unfortunately, not as well versed as I should be with DVD studio pro. The attempts I've made in authoring dvd's there, so far have been a disaster. For a demo dvd for the pianist I had to make a QT movie from FCP and import that into iMovie so that I could add chapter markers for cues (the chapter markers that I made in FCP were not recognized by iMovie). Because of all of the compression, in an out, some things really looked bad but that was my convoluted way to make a DVD. If you have a quick fix and you have time to post it here, I'd be willing to try it. This may take me down a road that may take longer than the time I will have until the show date this Saturday.

Thanks very much
Duane Harper Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2009, 08:02 PM   #4
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Posts: 1,538
Don't make this more difficult than necessary.

Use your easy way. Firewire the finished video back to your camcorder to record a tape master.

Use the same camcorder to simply feed a COMPOSITE video signal from the tape to the projector. (Usually the yellow RCA connector on the YELLOW/RED/WHITE breakout cable or panel of the camera.)

Every projector I know of accepts simple composite video via an RCA connector.

The quality will be dependent on the quality of the original video, the quality of the projector, and yes, the surface you'll be projecting upon, but the type of connection you use should have no bearing to the results you get.

Good luck.
Bill Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2009, 09:01 PM   #5
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 26
Thank you very much Bill.

I will try just that and since I also have the connects I will try component out of the camera to VGA in on the projector. In any case I will try and hope that the easy way will be bear good results.

Will post the results here. Actually the video is good quality; down converted from the camera and captured on a simple NTSC DV timeline.

Thanks!
Duane Harper Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28th, 2009, 10:15 AM   #6
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,542
I would agree to just keep it simple and use the camera for this sort of thing.

For making DVD's, if you don't want to deal with software issues consider getting a DVD recorder which has firewire input. They are really cheap these days and you can plug them into your mac just like a camera then use FCP's print to video function and just hit the record button on the DVD recorder.

Then when you want to do something like this in the future you can just bring a portable DVD player for the projector. I've found that the highest quality setting on my DVD recorder (60 minute DVD) gives results which are very hard to tell apart from standard definition DV.

(note - I'm also moving this thread to our FCP forum)
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28th, 2009, 10:34 AM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Posts: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff View Post
For making DVD's, if you don't want to deal with software issues consider getting a DVD recorder which has firewire input. They are really cheap these days and you can plug them into your mac just like a camera then use FCP's print to video function and just hit the record button on the DVD recorder.
I believe (most?) DVD recorders will ONLY take a Firewire input from a camera, and NOT from a computer's Firewire output.

This means you'll have to use FCP's Print-to-video to the camera (i.e. record to tape first), and THEN connect the camera to the DVD-recorder to record the footage to DVD.
__________________
Martin at HeadSpin HD on Blu-ray
Martin Mayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28th, 2009, 03:11 PM   #8
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,542
Don't know why you say that... my Sony DVD recorder works great connected to my computer. It also provides a handy way to connect a monitor via component video for editing (standard definition). I can't see why the recorder would accept firewire from a camera but not a computer.

Maybe you are confusing INPUT with OUTPUT? It is indeed very rare for a DVD recorder to have firewire OUTPUT. In other words, you can connect the recorder to the computer and burn a disk from the FCP timeline, but you can't PLAY a DVD and send it over firewire for the computer to CAPTURE.
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28th, 2009, 09:19 PM   #9
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New York City
Posts: 2,615
He's right for some models of DVD recorder. My Panasonic DVD recorders don't talk to FCP at all but they work with cameras. My favorite DVD recorders are SVHS/DVD dual decks from JVC but I've never tried them with FCP.

The whole projection out of a computer is a good question. I just finished creating hours and hours of media for a big film festival here in New York and the issue of playback has always been a problem. While most venues now have HD projectors, available connection is the big problem. Some places have DigiBeta, others have DVcam or DVD, some are BetaSP and very few have HDCam. Any number of deck combos can be found. I have not encountered Blu-Ray, HDV or server based playback outside of a professional (not open to the general public) screening room yet.

Ideally I would like to deliver the highest quality but each venue has it's own set of problems. One place has a great HD projector and a lot of SD playback to choose from but the video system goes through a composite switcher even though every playback unit has an S-Video out. In my experience, many projectors do not give great results with composite video, the quality is in the component inputs. College screening facilities frequently have VGA access to the projector but commercial venues usually don't.

I have set up projectors using the VGA port of a laptop (Windows and Mac) and gotten good results with DVD playback. DV codec didn't look good at all thru the VGA but playing the same video thru a camera that was connected to the projector looked great. There might be a way to run DV codec material correctly thru the VGA but someone will have to help here. A HD shot film I worked on is getting a rough cut screening soon and the producer is going to run it thru FCP on his laptop (using a external 800 drive) to a projector thru the VGA port. HD looks good on VGA. The big issue is getting the screen resolution right for HD on a VGA port. And it's likely the monitor settings need to be adjusted to make sure the color and gamma are right. It'll take time but it's worth it. There the remote issue of a computer problem ruining the screening.

For screenings, this is the order of safety and quality.

Tape - preferably DigiBeta or some form of DV. HDCam for HD material although HDV will work. Hopefully the decks are connected with RGB or HDMI. S-Video is next best with composite the very last. The possibility of screening failure is very, very low with tape.

DVD - Burn the project at the best setting you can. Most DVD recorders actually compress video as well as many computer programs can and save time. Use the best DVD media that you can get, Taiyo Yuden and Fuji always work for me. Many producers and screening places are wary of DVD has they have been plagued with breakup and total playback failure in the past. My DVDs have never done this but it's hard to convince someone who once had to refund money to angry customers to ever use DVD again. A very modest possibility of screening failure. Best to do a test screening if possible. A cheap DVD can run great for an hour and suddenly break up in the last minutes. I've seen this.

Computer - You can get high quality playback but it's the most problematic to set up and some projectors are very hard to get certain computers to talk to. After all the problems are worked out, a low possibility of screening failure. Best to do a test screening if possible. I would advise to have a back-up plan just in case. DVD or camera with tape.
__________________
William Hohauser - New York City
Edit/Camera/DCP production/Animation
William Hohauser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28th, 2009, 09:53 PM   #10
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 26
Wanna say thanks to Boyd, Bill and Frank for the spot on advice. Used the component out from the camera into the projector. The video looked very good for what it was and as good as I could have hoped for - Shot on a Z1u, down-converted to a DV NTSC timeline etc and projected with a "corporate" projector. I even had cut some Flip Video (SD), into it and it came out looking good. For the venue, the situation and the equipment involved, it was the right deal and very easy to manage.

Good info all around about options for DVD burning and video projection.
Duane Harper Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2009, 09:10 AM   #11
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kennewick, WA
Posts: 1,124
In this situation, I normally export the timeline out to a WMV file (Windows Media). I give the file to the customer and they play the file off of a Windows laptop (just because everyone seems to have one kicking around).

I'll put 5-10 seconds of black at the beginning of the file so they can "cue it up" and not see the Windows desktop before playing.

I use Telestream Flip4Mac WMV Studio HD ($179) to convert to WMV. I've been using it for many years now and it's been a real problem solver for us. :)
__________________
Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor
Mitchell Lewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2009, 09:46 AM   #12
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 26
If anyone is still tuned into this thread; doesn't the hierarchy of video connections from source (DVD player, camera, computer) to screen or projector, from the worst to best, go something like this?:

Composite
VGA
S Video
Component
DVI
(maybe firewire is somewhere in that mix as well)

Would not a dedicated component in, on a projector or display, give better results than VGA or composite ins?
Duane Harper Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2009, 12:40 PM   #13
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New York City
Posts: 2,615
I would order it this way, worse to best:

Analog -
Composite
S Video
VGA
Component RGB

Digital -
DVI
HDMI
SDI

The only reason VGA comes before Component RGB is that computer video levels are different from television video levels and that can lead to calibration problems for playback. DVI can have the same problems while HDMI is usually calibrated for TV playback.
__________________
William Hohauser - New York City
Edit/Camera/DCP production/Animation
William Hohauser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3rd, 2009, 09:09 AM   #14
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 26
Thanks again William!

This is good to know.
Duane Harper Grant is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Apple / Mac Post Production Solutions > Final Cut Suite

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:03 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network