Cleaner Goofiness at DVinfo.net

Ted Springer · December 14th, 2003, 04:02 PM

It seems I just can't win. Cleaner 6.0.1 seems to be broken. When I encode video, it messes it up, skewing it horribly. Check out this pic for an example. It ONLY does this in OS X. It works freakin' fantastic in OS 9 with the same settings (except that it uses KB instead of kb in OS X for some odd reason when tweaking Sorenson data rates).

Any idea what's going on here? Why is my Mac evil? Are all Macs evil?

EDIT: It only seems to do this with wide-aspect ratio Quicktimes, or when I change the aspect ratio in any way from the original. Again, this does not affect OS 9.

Ken Tanaka · December 14th, 2003, 08:34 PM

What format is the original footage? 4:3? 16:9? I gather the latter but just to be sure.

Can you copy the text from the Summary tab (of your Cleaner Settings) here?

Ted Springer · December 14th, 2003, 09:52 PM

The original footage is usually flagged for 4:3 as it comes from a DVX100. If I crop letterbox footage I get the skewing... same if I stretch the footage in FCP to be an anamorphic DV file and then change the aspect ratio in Cleaner.

I can't copy and paste the text from Cleaner, but I can do the next best thing and post a screenshot of the summary

Ken Tanaka · December 15th, 2003, 12:08 AM

Nothing jumps out as being a problem. I am assuming, then, that you are exporting from FCP 4 (as Quicktime DV or as FCP file?) and that you are sending Cleaner 30fps 4:3 footage which you then crop to 430x240? What aspect ratio in Cleaner do you select under the crop? (ex: Same as source, same as cropped, etc.)

I wonder if some of your troubles in this thread could be related to this.

Sharon Fraats · December 15th, 2003, 12:13 AM

Could you not export from QuickTime Pro as a QT movie yet use MPEG4 to compress it or to stream it?

Question is what do you want your final source to be?

Jeff Donald · December 15th, 2003, 07:16 AM

On the Apple FCP discussion pages there are comments relating to Cleaner not working well with compressor. I can't test any of this for you Ted, as I'm still on FCP 3.

Ted Springer · December 15th, 2003, 08:15 AM

The footage is 24fps progressive, and I want it to be Sorenson 3 24fps. I use unconstrained for the cropping and aspect ratio, because I know exactly what size the video needs to be (plus I like the control).

Works great in OS 9.

I'm amazed that you're still on FCP3, Jeff. You seem to know quite a bit about version 4. Though wouldn't someone use Cleaner or Compressor?

John Locke · December 15th, 2003, 10:32 AM

Ted,

You're right...it would be either/or.

I got a similar look recently when I accidentally tried to compress a PAL sequence made in FCP as NTSC in Cleaner.

Have you double-checked your FCP settings? Both the sequence settings and the export settings?

Here's what should be the sure fire way of getting a result:

1. Export as "Quicktime Movie" then select "uncompressed 10-bit NTSC"
2. Import that into Cleaner and choose one of the Quicktime NTSC presets, being sure to set the ratio for wide screen.

Sharon Fraats · December 15th, 2003, 12:31 PM

Did you do a 2:3:3:2 pull down removal upon import and then export in QT with the same settings or converted back?

Ted Springer · December 15th, 2003, 03:25 PM

I don't need to do a pulldown since the source file and the Quicktime will be 24 progressive. I am at work right now so I will try the uncompressed option a little later and let you know my results.

Jeff Donald · December 15th, 2003, 04:07 PM

Quote:

I'm amazed that you're still on FCP3, Jeff. You seem to know quite a bit about version 4. Though wouldn't someone use Cleaner or Compressor?

I have access to a computer with FCP 4 at school, but we're not teaching it yet. We'll probably switch in the summer or next fall. I will purchase FCP 4 for myself when I upgrade to a G5 in the next month or so.

Ted Springer · December 15th, 2003, 08:59 PM

Exporting as an uncompressed movie worked! I guess Cleaner can be a bit finicky with DV files.

Thanks to everyone!

December 14th, 2003, 04:02 PM	#1
Ted Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 328	Cleaner Goofiness It seems I just can't win. Cleaner 6.0.1 seems to be broken. When I encode video, it messes it up, skewing it horribly. Check out this pic for an example. It ONLY does this in OS X. It works freakin' fantastic in OS 9 with the same settings (except that it uses KB instead of kb in OS X for some odd reason when tweaking Sorenson data rates). Any idea what's going on here? Why is my Mac evil? Are all Macs evil? EDIT: It only seems to do this with wide-aspect ratio Quicktimes, or when I change the aspect ratio in any way from the original. Again, this does not affect OS 9.

December 14th, 2003, 08:34 PM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	More info needed What format is the original footage? 4:3? 16:9? I gather the latter but just to be sure. Can you copy the text from the Summary tab (of your Cleaner Settings) here? __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

December 15th, 2003, 12:08 AM	#4
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Nothing jumps out as being a problem. I am assuming, then, that you are exporting from FCP 4 (as Quicktime DV or as FCP file?) and that you are sending Cleaner 30fps 4:3 footage which you then crop to 430x240? What aspect ratio in Cleaner do you select under the crop? (ex: Same as source, same as cropped, etc.) I wonder if some of your troubles in this thread could be related to this. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

December 15th, 2003, 07:16 AM	#6
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	On the Apple FCP discussion pages there are comments relating to Cleaner not working well with compressor. I can't test any of this for you Ted, as I'm still on FCP 3. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

December 15th, 2003, 10:32 AM	#8
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	Ted, You're right...it would be either/or. I got a similar look recently when I accidentally tried to compress a PAL sequence made in FCP as NTSC in Cleaner. Have you double-checked your FCP settings? Both the sequence settings and the export settings? Here's what should be the sure fire way of getting a result: 1. Export as "Quicktime Movie" then select "uncompressed 10-bit NTSC" 2. Import that into Cleaner and choose one of the Quicktime NTSC presets, being sure to set the ratio for wide screen. __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

December 14th, 2003, 09:52 PM	#3
Ted Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 328	The original footage is usually flagged for 4:3 as it comes from a DVX100. If I crop letterbox footage I get the skewing... same if I stretch the footage in FCP to be an anamorphic DV file and then change the aspect ratio in Cleaner. I can't copy and paste the text from Cleaner, but I can do the next best thing and post a screenshot of the summary

December 15th, 2003, 12:13 AM	#5
Sharon Fraats Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: chicago, ill Posts: 190	Could you not export from QuickTime Pro as a QT movie yet use MPEG4 to compress it or to stream it? Question is what do you want your final source to be?

December 15th, 2003, 08:15 AM	#7
Ted Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 328	The footage is 24fps progressive, and I want it to be Sorenson 3 24fps. I use unconstrained for the cropping and aspect ratio, because I know exactly what size the video needs to be (plus I like the control). Works great in OS 9. I'm amazed that you're still on FCP3, Jeff. You seem to know quite a bit about version 4. Though wouldn't someone use Cleaner or Compressor?

December 15th, 2003, 12:31 PM	#9
Sharon Fraats Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: chicago, ill Posts: 190	Did you do a 2:3:3:2 pull down removal upon import and then export in QT with the same settings or converted back?

December 15th, 2003, 03:25 PM	#10
Ted Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 328	I don't need to do a pulldown since the source file and the Quicktime will be 24 progressive. I am at work right now so I will try the uncompressed option a little later and let you know my results.

December 15th, 2003, 08:59 PM	#12
Ted Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 328	Exporting as an uncompressed movie worked! I guess Cleaner can be a bit finicky with DV files. Thanks to everyone!