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Old March 23rd, 2004, 05:47 PM   #1
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Will Final Cut Pro Surpass Avid? or has it already?

Hello Everybody,

I was wondering what your views are for the future of Avid and Final Cut Pro.
My two cents are within three years FCP will have all of the advanced features of avid and will become the industry standard.

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Old March 23rd, 2004, 09:43 PM   #2
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It really depends on what "surpass" means. FCP4 is a tremendous product (and the one I use). It's certainly capable of, and currently used for, cutting just about anything an Avid can cut.

But Avid has been deeply embedded in the motion picture and television businesses for many, many years. They spend millions on a dedicated sales force whose mission is simply to ensure that the big Avid system contracts stay right where they are and continue to flourish. Feature comparisons to FCP, Vegas, or any other editor are irrelevant. Avid works very hard to ensure that FCP remains categorized as a "consumer/hobbyist/student editor" in the minds of the men who sign purchase orders (and who never touch an editing station). Economics and influence are at the heart of nearly all "industry standards".

Apple will never have a comparable sales force to Avid. But perhaps eventually (10+ yrs.) if Apple maintains its stamina and product dedication FCP may be as broadly accepted as Avid. But don't count on it.

Meanwhile, just cut with whatever you can afford and whatever you enjoy working with.
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Old March 24th, 2004, 03:00 AM   #3
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Wasn't the movie "Cold Mountain" edited on Final Cut Pro?
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Old March 24th, 2004, 07:22 AM   #4
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<<<-- Originally posted by Ted Springer : Wasn't the movie "Cold Mountain" edited on Final Cut Pro? -->>>

Yes it was. And I don't understand why people are so pessimistic about FinalCut becoming the NEW STANDARD. Obviously Avid dominates the film & TV market, but I expect Apple to get many switchers when they are forced to choose between Avid's expensive upgrades vs Apple's insanely attractive offering.

Three years ago nobody thought FinalCut would be the amazing tool that it is and in the years to come I expect to see FC pick up even more momentum and industry acceptance.
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Old March 24th, 2004, 08:44 AM   #5
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Three years ago FCP was unacceptable for the film and TV business, especially compared to Avid. Only recent improvements have driven it to where it is now.

Avid has better workflow and interface but FCP has become a fine product.
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Old March 24th, 2004, 08:59 AM   #6
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I would say the FCP has "surpassed" Avid in the indy/prosumer small shop areas, by virtue of the fact that it targeted them while Avid ignored them. Avids response was to create Avid XpressDV and Pro.

(I cut on Avid, my boss cuts will FCP we work in the same shop)

Cold mountain was cup on FCP, in fact, as I recall they strung five computers together to get the same abilities as an Avid Symphony. In order for FCP to "compete" with Avid, it will have to build an offer "High End" hardware solutions with dedicated sales force and service

OR

Computers will have to become even faster to allow for uncompressed real time high end production capabilities for "off the shelf" software. Is that day comming? Perhaps. Does Avid know it? You bet.
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Old March 24th, 2004, 09:16 AM   #7
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You can read an interview with Walter Murch here. It was more like for less than the cost of one Avid Symphony he could purchase five Mac G4's, FCP, Cinema Tools, Aurora Ignitors for RT 24fps capture, and a fiber RAID system. In another interview he stated that he never could have edited the 1/2 million feet of film in the time alloted with Avids (with the same budget).
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Old March 24th, 2004, 09:23 AM   #8
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FCP has made massive leaps and bounds into the industry in the last couple of years.

Cold Mountain, Scrubs, Stargate SG1 (you can even see FCP in the episode 'Heros') and a lot more none of us even heard of.

Apple has a pretty aggressive direction into this area and has bought companies like the makers of SHAKE and introducing Pixlets both of which are exclusively available on Mac.

Look at the films that used SHAKE in the last couple of years and to do that they had to be on a mac and FCP is getting a lot of press.

plus there's the price point on Avid systems these days--- FCP plus a G5 is a hell of a lot less.

It will be interesting to see how things go but FCP is moving into a lot of areas and will only grow.
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Old March 24th, 2004, 11:13 AM   #9
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It is interesting to note that Walter Murch was the first one to edit a feature film using the Avid (English Patient) and now went on to be the first one to dump the Avid and use FCP on a feature (Cold Mountiain). He won an Oscar for the first and a nod for the second.

I have a friend who assisted on both, and he is certain there is no going back. The economics alone make FCP highly attractive. When you add compatibility issues and the beauty of a software-based solution, it would be tough to justify creating an editting studio based on Avid and not FCP. He has no question at all that FCP was a far better system for them to use.
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Old March 24th, 2004, 12:13 PM   #10
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This kinda reminds me of when Lanier Business Machines made and sold really nice word processors running on dedicated hardware (early '80s about $15,000 a pop. They owned the market. This little upstart, Word Perfect, was selling a software application that ran on the IBM PC. It couldn't possibly compete with the powerful and sophisticated Lanier machines, they weren't troubled by it. Snicker-snicker.
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Old March 24th, 2004, 03:23 PM   #11
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That's an apt analogy, Dan. I recall very well having Lanier salesmen calling on me in the early/mid 1980's when I did have several of their workstations installed. They did sing that "we're experienced, we're dedicated, let us upgrade you" song in my office. I also vividly recall how aghast they were when one day they found an IBM PC and printer sitting at the reception desk. Their reaction was similar to that of a home owner who'd just found a mold outbreak in his basement.

FCP has a great deal of broadening momentum at this time. I just hope that it represents an ever-strengthening force for sales of Apple equipment into the professional community (which is really the impetus behind Apple's support and development of these products). If Steve Jobs decides to exit his successor may well have a very different perspective.
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Old April 3rd, 2004, 05:36 AM   #12
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The Murch/Cold Mountain thing and FCP was just a brilliant Apple marketing tool for FCP. Believe me, I have inside sources on this one.

It's similar to Soderberg (SP?) and Canon with "Full Frontal."

However, Avid needs to get their $hit together and pay attention to their competition. At this point, MOJO is a joke. One stream of uncompressed ....whoopie!

The problem with Avid is ... they are competeing with themselves. They need to lower the price of Adrenaline or dump it all together. They are in a virtual pigeon hold due to their "flagship" systems.

Unless they open up Xpress, they're screwed.

Bottom line .... the consumer is the winner.

Whether you're a FCP loyalist or an Avid person, be lucky the two products exist. It only benefits us.

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Old April 3rd, 2004, 11:32 AM   #13
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FCP has taken over some areas like trailer editing. As for the future, I'm not going to pretend to be a Miss Cleo.

2- Does anyone know how Avid lost money? Their stock report shows that they actually lost money in some quarters.
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Old April 3rd, 2004, 11:53 AM   #14
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<<<-- ... reminds me of when Lanier Business Machines made and sold really nice word processors running on dedicated hardware ... little upstart, Word Perfect, was selling a software application that ran on the IBM PC ... Snicker-snicker. -->>>

Funny story ... especially since I'm sitting here using Microsoft Word ... makes you wonder, doesn't it ...
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Old April 7th, 2004, 07:47 PM   #15
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I met an editor the other day who put things into perspective:

If you are editing on an Avid as opposed to using FCP then you are in an other ball game. Simply because you stand out from the thousands upon thousands of hobbyists that know how to edit in FCP but are not editors.

On the other hand it basically comes down to your reel as an editor. Your reel is what basically sells you as an editor regardless if you are editing on Avid or FCP.

Though, I do foresee that over the years as all the people who have grown up with FCP, will stay with FCP. Also when they are well into their professional editing career.

My question is though, will Apple develop a high end FCP similar to Avid Symphony?
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