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Old May 21st, 2009, 01:26 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Hohauser View Post
My experience has demonstrated (to me at least) that the HDMI inputs of most LCDs are calibrated for the output of cable boxes, DVD players or other consumer video equipment. In other words equipment set to video color space. The HDMI out of an HD camera is correct as well. A DVI to HDMI cable (if it works, those cables confuse the hell out of my Samsung LCD TVs) does not change the color space of the signal which is why Matrox can charge so much for their excellent output boxes. BlackMagic Designs have a decent HDMI card for MacPros but nothing for laptops, iMacs or MacMinis.

The VGA inputs on your average LCD TV are set to computer color space so with a little tweaking in the color output settings on your Mac you can get a pretty good image for informal viewing. I'm sure you can calibrate a DVI to HDMI signals to close to optimal as well but if you compare the output of a Blu-Ray player to the same image coming out of the DVI port you'll see the difference.
Interesting. Would I actually see an improvement feeding my projector via VGA rather than DVI/HDMI? I have always assumed that the digital path should be cleaner--am I wrong?
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Old May 21st, 2009, 03:00 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by William Hohauser View Post
The DVI output of your MacBookPro is not color accurate for video

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Originally Posted by Robert Lane View Post
Williams post about color accuracy is correct, which is why serious color correction is never accomplished with just an LCD monitor but external "broadcast monitors"
Can you please confirm: The DVI output on the MacBook Pro is NOT color accurate, no matter what you screen you use.

DVI to Apple Cinema LCD display = Color inaccuracy.
DVI to Broadcast HD monitor = Color inaccuracy.
DVI to Consumer Plasma HDTV = Color inaccuracy.
DVI to ANYTHING = Color inaccuracy.



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unless you spend more than $10k isn't going to be very impressive.
Either I am very easily impressed, or you are a few dozen tax brackets above me.

I have been impressed with a friend's $2,000 projector. While it isn't an IMAX, being able to watch TV or movies on a 120" screen in a private setting is a very enjoyable experience for me. Knowing that the whole entertainment system costs a few grand less than what I payed for a used Saturn impresses me.
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Old May 21st, 2009, 12:25 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Zach Love View Post
Can you please confirm: The DVI output on the MacBook Pro is NOT color accurate, no matter what you screen you use.
Yes, DVI out to anything will not be colour accurate. It is the wrong colour space. This is what makes the MXO so useful is that it does a conversion of the DVI signal to the correct colour space (to put it simply).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Love View Post
DVI to Apple Cinema LCD display = Color inaccuracy.
Correct. The HP DreamColor, though, is supposed to be accurate (when properly calibrated).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Love View Post
DVI to Broadcast HD monitor = Color inaccuracy.
AFAIK, no broadcast monitor accepts DVI input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Love View Post
DVI to Consumer Plasma HDTV = Color inaccuracy.
DVI to ANYTHING = Color inaccuracy.
Correct on both.
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Old May 21st, 2009, 03:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Love View Post
Can you please confirm: The DVI output on the MacBook Pro is NOT color accurate, no matter what you screen you use.

DVI to Apple Cinema LCD display = Color inaccuracy.
DVI to Broadcast HD monitor = Color inaccuracy.
DVI to Consumer Plasma HDTV = Color inaccuracy.
DVI to ANYTHING = Color inaccuracy.


Either I am very easily impressed, or you are a few dozen tax brackets above me.

I have been impressed with a friend's $2,000 projector. While it isn't an IMAX, being able to watch TV or movies on a 120" screen in a private setting is a very enjoyable experience for me. Knowing that the whole entertainment system costs a few grand less than what I payed for a used Saturn impresses me.
DVI to Apple Cinema LCD Display (for art and photos) = Color Accuracy after calibration
DVI to Apple Cinema LCD Display (for high-end print applications) = Color inaccuracy for many professionals even after calibration
DVI to Apple Cinema Display (video intended for broadcast) = Color inaccuracy no matter what.
DVI to Matrox MXO to Apple Cinema Display (video intended for broadcast) = Color accuracy

High-quality computer displays were mainly designed for print media which has a different set of parameters for professional work than video. The Matrox MXO has been designed to fix this. I don't have one but from what I've heard it does the job. It certainly costs enough. LCD televisions have frequently been adapted from computer monitor technology which gives them a different set of gamma characteristics from your standard tube TV set. Many projectors come from computer technology as well and the manufacturers assume that anything coming in thru the DVI or VGA connector is using computer gamma and anything coming thru the video connectors are using video gamma. HDMI is normally used by video equipment.

I have a 19in Viewsonic LCD that I have been able to calibrate to near video quality but it is less accurate than my 15 year old Sony monitor. The point here is that you can use LCD displays and video projectors for watching your work and showing it to an audience but when it comes to critical image manipulation your most economical best bet is still a traditional CRT monitor. In a few years we should have a better solution.
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 06:52 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Mike Barber View Post
Yes, DVI out to anything will not be colour accurate. It is the wrong colour space. This is what makes the MXO so useful is that it does a conversion of the DVI signal to the correct colour space (to put it simply).

Correct. The HP DreamColor, though, is supposed to be accurate (when properly calibrated).
It appears that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with connecting via DVI provided the either an MXO box or the monitor itself does some magic to convert the signal to the correct colour space.
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 03:14 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Nigel Barker View Post
It appears that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with connecting via DVI provided the either an MXO box or the monitor itself does some magic to convert the signal to the correct colour space.
Yes, but you can't attach the MXO to just any LCD. Not all LCD panels are created equal, and therefor may not make for good colour critical monitors, regardless of the MXO's magic at work.
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 09:56 PM   #22
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Mike,

Would you have a recommended setup for connecting a macbook pro to a LCD that would give acceptable results for monitoring and colour correction? Is the MXO mini the best way to go right now? Any monitors you like at the moment?

Thanks, and hope all is well,

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Old May 23rd, 2009, 01:43 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Vito DeFilippo View Post
Would you have a recommended setup for connecting a macbook pro to a LCD that would give acceptable results for monitoring and colour correction?
Since the Apple displays are changing (now mini Display Port), I believe they are out of the game for the time being. Otherwise the (slightly) older 23" display (with DVI) is a good one. I really like the NEC MultiSync 2690WUXi or 2490WUXi. Between the two, I would recommend the 2690WUXi for

a) slightly more screen space (25.5" vs 24"... that 1.5" does make a difference)
b) a wider colour gammut (the larger the panel, the wider the gamut)

When comparing the NEC to the HP DreamColor (both using the sRGB profile as a baseline), I saw all around equal quality of picture. The HP costs about twice as much or so. Also, the HP DreamColor requires a special probe for calibration; not the typical LCD probe.

I'm dreaming of the day I get myself a second NEC and put an MXO on it. Either that, or an MXO2 out to a good LCD HDTV. Again, not all are created equal.

The issue with cheap to mid-level monitors is consistency from corner to corner. Case in point: filling a $500 (CAN dollars) HP monitor with a white or medium grey screen and looking at it from a direct 90, you'll notice a blue tint on one side, and a pink tint on the other. That's symptomatic of the cheaper panel and the MXO isn't going to make that problem go away.
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 10:25 PM   #24
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Thanks for the info, Mike. Much appreciated.
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