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Old June 3rd, 2009, 02:24 PM   #1
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sony vegas pro-pc vs final cut pro mac

I am at the point of being sick and tired from both Sony Vegas and PC.
If i had to put the time i have spent fixing problems with both PC and Sony veges it will be days over days.
I just wander how things in the other side,
do mac/final cut pro users also spending time trying to figure out why it does not work the way it should.
As well what kind of a mac system do i need?
I am shooting HDV edit HDV
How is the work flow and what are my options as far as blue ray burning?
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 03:28 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dror Levi View Post
I am at the point of being sick and tired from both Sony Vegas and PC.
If i had to put the time i have spent fixing problems with both PC and Sony veges it will be days over days.
I just wander how things in the other side,
do mac/final cut pro users also spending time trying to figure out why it does not work the way it should.
Having spent a lot of time sitting beside Mac editors working on FCP, I know that they spend equal amounts of time waiting for things to render, trying to figure out how to make their mac eject CDs, puzzling over why their Macs no longer recognize external drives, and praying for their systems to unfreeze.

Of course, you'd never hear any of them admit it... :)

Both systems have their flaws and trade offs. A lot of it may be luck. I have two editing PCs running Vegas Pro 8, neither of them have crashed, no flaws, no bugs, and run icy fast real time. Of course, I don't use them for gaming, web surfing, email, or any of the major reasons that PCs get turned into crap. Those I do on my cheap $500 laptop.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 03:29 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dror Levi View Post
I am at the point of being sick and tired from both Sony Vegas and PC.
If i had to put the time i have spent fixing problems with both PC and Sony veges it will be days over days.
I just wander how things in the other side,
do mac/final cut pro users also spending time trying to figure out why it does not work the way it should.
As well what kind of a mac system do i need?
I am shooting HDV edit HDV
How is the work flow and what are my options as far as blue ray burning?
First, Macs have no official blu-ray burning support.

Second, FCP is more stable and more intuitive than Vegas; but I find that editing on FCP is slower because where, in Vegas, you always have at least -some- preview no matter how many effects you pile on (Vegas reduces frame rate and resolution to keep things moving) FCP requires you to render after every change, and even moving things around on the timeline can force a re-render. Before making the switch, I HIGHLY encourage borrowing someone's FCP rig for a week or so.

I actually switched FROM FCP to Vegas, haven't looked back.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 04:09 PM   #4
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I really hate "which is better" questions because there is no definitive answer, period. Every NLE out there is quite capable of producing amazing results, it simply comes down to how well you understand both the hardware and software environments.

Considering how weak the economy is currently I would not suggest abandoning your current PC environment. As pointed out earlier, 95% of the troubles PC's suffer from come from being hacked by internet-based invaders and the goofy stuff some games can do to the registry code.

If you have a dedicated edit system that doesn't touch the internet with exception to software updates/patches and the OS/application has been setup and configured properly you really shouldn't be pulling your hair out. Vegas is a stable edit platform and is well used by indies across the world.

Get your system looked at by a pro or, wipe your system clean and start fresh before going out and reinventing the wheel by reinvesting in a completely new platform and software and pay little attention to the plethora of "this is better than that" opinions.

Show me someone who's frustrated with their NLE/OS and I'll show you someone who needs more education on how to use it properly.

I will say this much about the main difference between PC and Mac currently: Steve Jobs has effectively put the brakes on several levels of pro-app development that Mac users have been asking about for years.

Mac's are more stable and *nearly* invulnerable to internet-based attacks and the OS is an amazing platform however, you can currently get far more for your money in a PC rig than you can in any Mac (especially now that they're using identical CPU bases) AND, you have much more options in the way of media output (Blu-Ray being one of the biggies), encoding options (there are hardware-based encoders for PC but none for Mac) and almost always the "latest" technology get's implemented in PC's first, Mac's follow-on much later - if ever.

As I say, there is no "best" or "perfect" machine or NLE but considering you're PC based there's *currently* no compelling reason for you to jump ship.
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Last edited by Robert Lane; June 3rd, 2009 at 08:20 PM.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 04:35 PM   #5
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Robert has summed this up brilliantly. I use FCP on Macs and Vegas 7e on a PC. I have to say doing a fresh install of XP recently on the PC (it took me a day, but a very well spent day) removed nearly 5 years of "accumulated rubbish" and it's a joy to use that PC with Vegas again. Everything is rock stable again.

That being said, I love many aspects of FCP / Macs and now I have the best of both worlds! Neither is best and the advice to sort your PC out before abandoning the Vegas route is a good one (cheapest and fastest too).
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 07:43 PM   #6
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Thank you guys for shaking me up.
The truth is that everything was fine until i installed vista 64.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 08:03 PM   #7
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I'll second the comments her regarding the virtues of a fresh XP install and staying off the net.
Also, most people find Vegas the most intuitve of all NLE's.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 08:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dror Levi View Post
Thank you guys for shaking me up.
The truth is that everything was fine until i installed vista 64.
If you installed V64 *over* XP as an upgrade then that's the core of your problem; you need a clean install of whichever OS you intend to use.

But to put your mind at ease: I have V64 Business (SP2) installed with Boot Camp on a Macbook Pro - Vegas 9 runs like a champ, no hiccups.
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Old June 4th, 2009, 08:15 AM   #9
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Having used both Vegas and FCP extensively now I can say that each one has its benefits and drawbacks.

I like editing better in FCP now, although I can work a lot faster in Vegas sometimes for short projects.

FCP requires better data management. If you are not careful you can have all sorts of render files etc splayed all over your hard drive.

For format compatibility Vegas wins hands down. I absolutely despise the way that FCP has to have everything in a .mov wrapper to work well. This means that in order for me to keep my original XDCAM EX files I have to use double the disc space. Once for the BPAV folder structure backup, and again for the .mov rewraps.

Having said all of that, I love using the Mac in general much better than the PC. The interface is much nicer and is easier to use. Also with the Mac I didn't have to give up my Vegas setup. I can use both Vegas/Windows and FCP/OS X on the same machine.
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Old June 4th, 2009, 09:30 AM   #10
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Vista 64..... Well THERE'S your problem! :)
j/k....


Actually, I do have one pro Mac/pro FCP point to make:
* if you work a lot with Mac/FCP users, it's probably going to save you a lot of headaches if you switch, just in time/compatibility issues.
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Old June 4th, 2009, 05:41 PM   #11
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I started my editing skills with Vegas and used Vegas for years until I had to move to FCP.
I can say both NLE's do the same thing, Edit.
One is not better than the other, they approach things on a different level that's it.
When I moved to FCS2 I had to re learn the editing process. I can say I'm able to move around FCP as I did with Vegas and at this time I'm really enjoying editing with FCS2.

By moving from Vegas to FCS2 will NOT turn bad footage into great footage.
These are just editing suites with different features and they all do the same thing.
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Old June 5th, 2009, 02:52 AM   #12
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One thing I am still missing in this dicussion, is how your clients see things.
I have been editing over 12 years now on 3 different systems.
After starting on Media100 I was forced to switch to Avid, and this was mainly because my clients didn't knew Media100.
Nowadays I work in FCP (which is quite known here), but I am sure that if I would switch to Vegas this would cost me many clients.
This will be because it is unknown here.
No post production company I know of, has a Vegas setup in Amsterdam.
They all have an Avid or FCP setup for offline and Flint/Inferno for online.
So therefor all the art directors and directors here only know these machines, anything else would be seen as inferior.
Offcourse they can't say why it would be the case, but that is just the psyche of the client.
In the end they pay good money, so I give them what they want. Regardless if it would be the best choice for my workflow.
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Old June 5th, 2009, 05:41 AM   #13
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I have to concur with what's being said, it sounds like your pc needs some serious cleaning. I keep my editing pc off the net except for a few trusted sites, e.g. dvinfo. And I have installed only what I deem essential programs. It runs Avid and Vegas very well, esp given its age. I find Vegas to be a very solid program.
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Old June 6th, 2009, 04:08 PM   #14
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It is a personal preference. Since 1996 I have exclusively used the Macrosystem Casablanca NLE system. I have produced everything from weddings, to TV commercials, and everything between. The new S-4100 model comming out this month will be able to burn Blu-Ray and have direct XDCAM ex1/3 support and much more. I would highly recommend the Casablanca NLE system.

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Old June 6th, 2009, 06:41 PM   #15
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One thing I am still missing in this dicussion, is how your clients see things.
This is an important point - but may not be relevant to Dror's situation.

If you're an independent content provider/producer and don't interface with other post-houses and can deliver to your clients a finished product without ever stepping outside your own premises then it doesn't matter what NLE/system you're using, it's all personal preference and what your budget can handle.

But, if you *do* have to interface with other production facilities/post houses/broadcast networks then you have to be prepared to deliver content they can immediately ingest into their workflow. That doesn't mean you have to own the same software *they* do, you just have to know how to give them what they want.

If you're an Avid, AE, FCP, Quantel or Premiere Pro user then you're guaranteed to have 98% compatibility of output to other facilities. And, if you need to transfer an entire project with assets to other NLE's there's always Automatic Duck which makes cross-platform/cross-system moves a snap.

Vegas is an amazing platform but just like FC Express and Edius lacks some of the industry-standard compatibilities that make it a professional post-house favorite.
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