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Old July 1st, 2009, 09:09 AM   #1
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Clean Compress to DV NTSC Anamorphic?

This includes compress to DV NTSC (not anamorphic)...

I just CAN'T seem to get a clean compression to DV NTSC Anamorphic, or DV NTSC (not Anamorphic) out of any format on my HM700! The resulting video looks like it has horizontal line artifacts.. kind looks like a Moire' pattern, only just horizontal lines. I've tried shooting in 1080i and 1080p and 1440i and 1440p and 720p. Nothing helps except to play out the video through the firewire port squeezed and capture in real-time to Final Cut. Even then, it's not as clean as a video shot naturally to the DV format. Anyone resolve this issue?

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Old July 1st, 2009, 11:52 AM   #2
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I don't think how you are shooting will have anything to do with it. How are you making your DVD file?
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Old July 1st, 2009, 11:54 AM   #3
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What workflows have you used so far? I get great looking anamorphic dvds from 1080 24p on the HM700, and did before with 720 24p from HD200 (same codec).
This is using finalcut, direct output to compressor in FCP studio 2.
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Old July 1st, 2009, 01:28 PM   #4
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Compress to DV Artifacts

The link above will show you what I get when I try to compress any resolution out of my HM700 to DV or DV Anamorphic using Compressor. The Client wants DV NTSC 16x9. Any workflow that can give me a clean DV or DV Anamorphic file would be appreciated. One of you suggested compressing to MPEG-2 by using a DVD setting in Compressor. Is that the only way?

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Old July 1st, 2009, 01:59 PM   #5
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Use Export->Quicktime Conversion-> set your settings (use preserve aspect ratio option).
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Old July 1st, 2009, 02:10 PM   #6
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Thanks for the suggestion, but no joy.

I tried QT Conversion to Quicktime Movie with 16x9 selected, and QT Conversion to DV Stream with 169 selected. Came out with the right dimensions, but STRONG horizontal line artifacting.

One shot really stands out badly. The woman is wearing a top with horizontal stripes. You'd think she was wearing a kaleidoscope.

The "Preserve Aspect Ratio" only allows to choose between letterboxing and cropped, FYI.
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Old July 1st, 2009, 02:25 PM   #7
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Here's a better example:

HM700 Export to DV with Artifacting

You can clearly see the artifacting going on. This was exported from Final Cut using QT Conversion and choosing 16x9, but I get the same artifacting if I don't retain 16x9 and I get the same results if I use Compressor and every other trick in the book. And, it's not just the woman's top; it's all through every export and affects any nearly horizontal line. Exporting to DVD (MPEG-2) looks great, but the client wants DV NTSC Anamorphic.
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Old July 1st, 2009, 03:12 PM   #8
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I see your problem. When you export DV NTSC it will interlace your footage (NTSC is 480i by default). What you see in interlacing of the picture. Try export ProRes 422 and build DVD out of ProRes. ProRes is still MPEG-2, so no transcoding needed, but I will not interlace your footage. It looks like there is no more 480/30p or 480/24p options in Quicktime conversion.
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Old July 1st, 2009, 08:15 PM   #9
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I'm not sure where everyone is getting the idea that I want to build a DVD. I don't. I want to convert to DV. Using a DVD conversion setting in Compressor yields beautiful results, but that's not what the client wants. He wants my HD material converted to DV NTSC Anamorphic. An expert friend suggested that the default in Compressor wants to set 4000kbps data rate and to turn it down to 1000kpbs, but no where can I find where to do that. I can only turn down the quality slider, but whether I use the Best, Least or in-between, the Moire' effect is still there.
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Old July 1st, 2009, 10:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Smith View Post
Here's a better example:

HM700 Export to DV with Artifacting

You can clearly see the artifacting going on. This was exported from Final Cut using QT Conversion and choosing 16x9, but I get the same artifacting if I don't retain 16x9 and I get the same results if I use Compressor and every other trick in the book. And, it's not just the woman's top; it's all through every export and affects any nearly horizontal line. Exporting to DVD (MPEG-2) looks great, but the client wants DV NTSC Anamorphic.
You answered your own question. While exporting MPEG-2 you retain progressive quality of frames, even if you downsize the number of lines. When exporting DV NTSC you are interlacing the footage. I don't think data rate has anything to do with this issue.
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 03:01 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Smith View Post
I'm not sure where everyone is getting the idea that I want to build a DVD. I don't. I want to convert to DV. Using a DVD conversion setting in Compressor yields beautiful results, but that's not what the client wants. He wants my HD material converted to DV NTSC Anamorphic. An expert friend suggested that the default in Compressor wants to set 4000kbps data rate and to turn it down to 1000kpbs, but no where can I find where to do that. I can only turn down the quality slider, but whether I use the Best, Least or in-between, the Moire' effect is still there.
To get the best result out of compressor you need to experiment with the encoder settings, you need to use the very best settings for both scaling and interlacing.
The other thing that you might try is use mpeg streamclip, which gives a very good conversion to Quick Time DV, however you need to go in and change the presets to correspond to what your needs are, you must especially be sure that you turn interlace scaling on. Of course you must also check in either converter that the field order is set correctly.

regards
Ian Skurrie
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 06:10 AM   #12
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Ian, MPEG Streamclip did the trick! Thanks very, very much for that suggestion.

But, it begs the question; why can't Compressor do the same thing?

The resulting file had a .dv extension. I changed it to .mov and it works fine. The client is expecting a 16x9 DV NTSC Anamorphic .mov file and that's what I now have.

Again, many thanks.

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Old July 2nd, 2009, 10:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Smith View Post
Ian, MPEG Streamclip did the trick! Thanks very, very much for that suggestion.

But, it begs the question; why can't Compressor do the same thing?



Don Smith
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Don,
I'm glad it worked.I think Compressor can do the same thing however you need to get into the menus and create your own presets using high quality scaling and interlacing options.I would give you a step by step description however compressor is broken on my computer at the moment (it comes up with a message indicating it can't find codecs) and it requires a reinstall of compressor which I need to do research on before I attempt it.

regards
Ian Skurrie
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 10:21 AM   #14
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Ian, when you get Compressor working again, download my 3-second 720p clip and try to convert it to DV NTSC Anamorphic and tell me what you get. I get Moire' artifacts on horizontal lines. It's not just this shot, either. It's all through the video.

Actually, this request is for anyone willing to see the artifacts I'm getting and have an idea of how to fix it in Compressor. It's just a challenge and it's academic since MPEG Streamclip (at Ian's suggestion) did the conversion just fine.

Some people think I'm trying to convert the video for the Web and I am not, so please, no admonishments for doing it wrong to bring my video to the Web (which I can do without a problem). I was just trying to get the original 720p footage compressed to a DV NTSC Anamorphic file because that's what the client asked for. It was not for the Web.

Here's the tiny sample clip:

3-second 720p sample
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 12:51 PM   #15
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For my 720P60 material, when I need to supply to DV, I place the HDV clip on a DV timeline, render and Export using Current Settings and I get clean DV files.
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