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Old July 19th, 2009, 08:58 AM   #1
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100 hours HDV Footage down to 25 mins!

Hi Everyone

I'm thinking of going with the Capture and edit in HDV but render in ProRes workflow and have 2 questions I'd appreciate any of your thoughts on:

1. I have 100 hours HDV footage I need to get edited down to 25 mins (60 hours of which are recordings of music events and speeches from which I'll only be extracting a choice couple of moments).

I have a script as my editing blueprint but am wondering whether I will need to import the entire 100 hours using the 'Capture and edit in HDV but render in ProRes workflow'.

Ideally in capture I would like to fast forward through the tapes to the segments I need and capture only those bits. Is this possible?

2. I plan to use Apple Color on pretty much every shot for subtle tweaks and enhancement. Because of this, should I perhaps only capture and edit and render entirely in ProRes 422 (as opposed to capturing in HDV, editing in HDV but rendering in ProRes 422)? I've read lots of threads about this but am still unclear.

I have a Sonnet D800 8TB Raid 5 as external storage.

Any thoughts would be really appreciated.

Peter
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Old July 19th, 2009, 09:19 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Peter Dunphy View Post
I have a script as my editing blueprint but am wondering whether I will need to import the entire 100 hours using the 'Capture and edit in HDV but render in ProRes workflow'.
GOOD GOLLY NO!

If you're working from a script and you know what pieces you want to grab, I PERSONALLY would capture just the pieces you intend on using (with handles on either side, five or so seconds on each side should do) using ProRes and Capture Now.

Color can't accept HDV files so this is probably the easiest work flow.

Use the Capture Now option (ProRes doesn't support Log and Capture): advance your tapes to about 15 seconds before the clip, use Capture Now, after about 5 seconds after the clip you want to use, hit "Esc" to abort and your clip will be saved.
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Old July 19th, 2009, 02:36 PM   #3
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GOOD GOLLY NO!

If you're working from a script and you know what pieces you want to grab, I PERSONALLY would capture just the pieces you intend on using (with handles on either side, five or so seconds on each side should do) using ProRes and Capture Now.

Color can't accept HDV files so this is probably the easiest work flow.

Use the Capture Now option (ProRes doesn't support Log and Capture): advance your tapes to about 15 seconds before the clip, use Capture Now, after about 5 seconds after the clip you want to use, hit "Esc" to abort and your clip will be saved.
Magic Shaun thanks for the advice - I was worrying that by capturing as ProRes it might 'force' me to capture the full tape each time. That's a load off my mind then about capturing and use of ProRes! Much appreciated!

Actually, while I'm here, one last question:

My source footage comes from a HDV Canon XHA1 1080i. Now, I notice there is a ProRes 422 HQ in addition to the standard ProRes setting. Would using the HQ one cause me any problems in editing/motion/grading do you think?
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Old July 19th, 2009, 03:45 PM   #4
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[QUOTE=Shaun Roemich;1173618]

Color can't accept HDV files so this is probably the easiest work flow.



~Peter
I hope you dont mind but I need to jump in and ask a question involving this topic towards "Magic Shaun" as well.

I always wondered why I couldn't import a raw HDV file into color and grade it. I had always just brought it over from FCP and sent it back, with no problems, so I never questioned why it didnt work straight into Color. But I would like to know why from FCP it works? What format is it in when its in the timeline? I thought it was in the same HDV format.
Also, ProRes, I have tried many times to capture in ProRes and with the boards help I have found out why I cant get it to work. Its too much work for my one Firewire card to work on the MBPro, I assume that there being connections to an 800 and 400port it would have worked. I know to solve this I need a SATA connection through the slot, just havent bought it yet. Now thinking while I am typing this, I wonder if I just try to capture straight to my MBPro through 400. I feel as if I am rambling but I'm going to keep going. Its too much data needed to capture and convert to ProRes and to run FCP all on just the computers sole drive?
How much of a difference is 4:2:2 compared to 4:2:0 (HDV i think)? If you dont want to take the time to answer this question that is fine, I will ask on the apple forums.

And Peter~
If I am unable to initially capture in ProRes, would Color accept if I capture in HDV, edit in HDV and render out in ProRes?

I definitely need to be able to get into Color b/c there is a very important project coming up.


Thanks~
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Old July 19th, 2009, 07:14 PM   #5
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I can't answer why you can export from FCP and it works but the reason Color doesn't work with HDV directly is that Color doesn't work with INTERframe compressed media (MPEG flavours & some others). It requires INTRAframe compressed (or uncompressed) media.

INTERframe means Group Of Pictures based compression over multiple frames whereas INTRAframe mean all compression takes place within each frame.

I've never tried HQ but I had ASSUMED that I would gain nothing over ProRes422 just because I was already coming from heavily compressed media (HDV 720P60) and all I was REALLY gaining by capturing/editing in ProRes was better motion graphics and better realtime performance than HDV.
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Old July 20th, 2009, 05:42 AM   #6
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"And Peter~
If I am unable to initially capture in ProRes, would Color accept if I capture in HDV, edit in HDV and render out in ProRes?"

Hi Janson

I plan to capture and edit and render in ProRes now - I'm afraid I have no experience of capturing in HDV, editing in HDV and rendering out in ProRes, so I'm not sure whether Color would somehow accept this workflow, but I wish you the very best of luck with finding a solution and getting your project edited. Sorry I can't be of any help.

Peter
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Old July 20th, 2009, 08:55 AM   #7
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(ProRes doesn't support Log and Capture)
Shaun, I thought capturing this way also removes the ability of rebatching in case he loses the footage. Do you know if this is true?

If yes, he really should have a hard backup of all clips in case of drive failure or something.
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Old July 20th, 2009, 03:34 PM   #8
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Vito: you are correct. No recapturing of clips in ProRes (a MAJOR design flaw, if you ask me) and therefore clips SHOULD be backed up.
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Old July 20th, 2009, 03:59 PM   #9
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a MAJOR design flaw, if you ask me
I agree. I'm terrified of not being able to batch import/recapture. I've had to do it enough times to know that it's essential to cover your $ss.

That's why I always log my tapes still. Videographers are always handing over tapes with no preroll, no matter how much I complain. Try rebatching that first few seconds and see what happens...
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Old July 20th, 2009, 04:04 PM   #10
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I don't disagree Vito but in SOME cases the workflow advantages outweigh the recapture ability. In fact, I find that FCP is less reliable for batch recaptures now (6.0.5) than it was under 1.0.2

Not all updates are true UPGRADES.
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Old July 20th, 2009, 04:30 PM   #11
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I don't disagree Vito but in SOME cases the workflow advantages outweigh the recapture ability.
Yeah, sure, I can see that. As long as you have proper backups.

Quote:
In fact, I find that FCP is less reliable for batch recaptures now (6.0.5) than it was under 1.0.2
I use Avid more than FCP, and haven't had to rebatch in FCP yet, so I'll take your word for it.

Never had an issue with it in Avid, even using cameras and decks that shouldn't really be frame accurate.

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Not all updates are true UPGRADES.
Ain't that the truth.
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Old July 20th, 2009, 06:05 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich View Post
GOOD GOLLY NO!

Use the Capture Now option (ProRes doesn't support Log and Capture): advance your tapes to about 15 seconds before the clip, use Capture Now, after about 5 seconds after the clip you want to use, hit "Esc" to abort and your clip will be saved.
Hi guys

Using this method (which I plan to in the next couple of days thanks to your kind advice) would you recommend that I browse though my 100 hours of footage, capturing all the short segments (with handles) I need, and then at the end once it's all captured, go through each of the clips and write a log description? Or, is it possible and viable to write a log description immediately after each and every clip that I capture in FCP?

I am currently setting up a Raid 5 Sonnet D800 8TB storage system for my clips/backup. I'm not sure about how I might specially set that up with FCP to be able to recapture clips if needs be (using my capture in ProRes, edit & render in ProRes workflow), or do you think the Raid 5 is already secure enough to ensure my clips are backed up?

Peter
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Old July 20th, 2009, 09:00 PM   #13
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Yes, you can identify the clips individually, just fill in the description field in the window that opens after you click on " capture now " / Battle Vaughan/miamiherald.com video team. PS: the description field increments automatically if you need to keep a sequence in order...
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Old July 21st, 2009, 09:25 AM   #14
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Yes, you can identify the clips individually, just fill in the description field in the window that opens after you click on " capture now " / Battle Vaughan/miamiherald.com video team. PS: the description field increments automatically if you need to keep a sequence in order...
Oh cool - will be nice to have all my clips logged with brief descriptions once they've all been captured. Thanks for your kind advice Battle.
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