New Compressor - Frame Controls BROKEN!!! at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Apple / Mac Post Production Solutions > Final Cut Suite

Final Cut Suite
Discussing the editing of all formats with FCS, FCP, FCE


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 29th, 2009, 05:46 AM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asheville, North Carolina
Posts: 89
New Compressor - Frame Controls BROKEN!!!

OK...just got the new Final Cut Studio installed and love the new features in FCP!
BUT when I went to the new compressor the output looked horrible!

My usual gorgeous output from from my custom presets (downsizing HD to SD-DVD using frame controls) now looks awful....almost as if frame controls have been disabled.....all kinds of stair stepping and aliasing now that I didn't have with the previous version.

Anyone else have this problem or have any ideas as to what is going on?
__________________
Canon HV20 | Sony FX1 | Canon XH-A1 | Sony XDCam EX1 | 8 Core Mac with FCP and lots of Hard Drives
Paul Kendal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2009, 09:58 AM   #2
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 1,562
Frame Controls do work but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Kendal View Post
My usual gorgeous output from from my custom presets (downsizing HD to SD-DVD using frame controls) now looks awful....almost as if frame controls have been disabled.....all kinds of stair stepping and aliasing now that I didn't have with the previous version.
You may have to remake them. I can confirm Frame Controls is working, as if I take the stock 'Advanced Format Conversions --> SD --> PAL Anamorphic', which has Frame Controls set to OFF, it looks like the proverbial pig's ear. Switch on Frame Controls and you get the improved scaling.

The illustration below based on downconverting 720p to SD shows a third option based on a 50fps original. Switching the Output Fields to Bottom First re-interlaces the movie for smooth video motion.

With bigger downscales you may need to move the Anti Alias slider up a bit.
Attached Thumbnails
New Compressor - Frame Controls BROKEN!!!-frame-controls-work.jpg  
__________________
Director/Editor - MDMA Ltd: Write, Shoot, Edit, Publish - mattdavis.pro
EX1 x2, C100 --> FCPX & PPro6
Matt Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2009, 10:20 AM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asheville, North Carolina
Posts: 89
I have tried creating a new preset....and run it once with Frame Controls turned on and then again with Frame Controls turned off....then tried again with Frame Controls turned on and anti aliasing turned up to 100% and all three clips look the same to me....VERY BAD.
__________________
Canon HV20 | Sony FX1 | Canon XH-A1 | Sony XDCam EX1 | 8 Core Mac with FCP and lots of Hard Drives
Paul Kendal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2009, 12:21 PM   #4
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 1,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Kendal View Post
tried again with Frame Controls turned on and anti aliasing turned up to 100% and all three clips look the same to me....VERY BAD.
Sorry to hear that Paul - it sounds like a local problem, as it looks like I'm up and running with HD to SD downconverts.

There have been times in the past where nothing short of a clean install would make fussy apps like Compressor and Cinema Tools work properly. Did you install over your existing FCP installation or use something like FCS Remover before installing?
__________________
Director/Editor - MDMA Ltd: Write, Shoot, Edit, Publish - mattdavis.pro
EX1 x2, C100 --> FCPX & PPro6
Matt Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2009, 04:29 PM   #5
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 1,562
Test Early, Test Often

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Kendal View Post
all three clips look the same to me....VERY BAD.
I've run a little test that tortures compressor and provides simply the worst case scenario for aliasing, based on creating a grid that rotates slowly. I've done it in SD, 720 and 1080, and encoded them all to SD-DVD, both in single pass non-frame control, and 2 pass frame control.

All movies were 25fps progressive. I'm running out of willpower this evening to try an interlaced version (but hold that thought).

If anyone feels like torturing their AV devices, I could provide the Motion files I've been playing with.

There is a clear difference between the FC and Non-FC on an LCD monitor. Chalk and cheese.

So I take the DVD and put it on my simple setup: domestic CRT TV, cheap DVD player.

If I put them on a 4:3 CRT monitor in letterbox mode, it's a pile of bad. If I re-do the DVD to use Pan & Scan, the results are far better (so there's poor scaling in the DVD player for a start).

And this is where things get interesting: the SD version is the worst. Thicker lines on the rotating grid are better than thin lines (of course - inter-field twitter and all that), but the 2 pixel grid I put behind everything causes the compression to fall apart when it moves. Of course it would.

Then we have the 720p version and this holds up so much better than the SD in all accounts, and there is a definite kick up the quality scale in the 2 pass Frame Controls Enabled, but I am getting significant aliasing. Up the scale to the 1080, and it's much improved BUT the difference is that I made the lines thicker and I think they're visually a little thicker at SD than the 720p ones, which are based on the SD sizes.

So on the CRT, I have to give it to the 1080 HQ, even though there is aliasing present and it does get a little ugly just off horizontal (the LQ is pug ugly).

But on the LCD, a naturally progressive device, the 720 is better than the 1080 at SD. Which is what I'd expect without resorting to pre-blurring the 1080 before downsizing. I would also have expected that on the CRT, but something's up...

There may be a slight change to the way Compressor's controls work, in that there is a mismatch of progressive material going onto an interlaced device, so I'm wondering if I should try again using 'Output fields' not set to 'Same as source' as it is on all my current tests, but 'Top First' (that is right, isn't it? Top except for DV which is Bottom? It's been a long day).

But that might make the DVD look worse on an LCD screen. Bother.

Test, test, test again.
__________________
Director/Editor - MDMA Ltd: Write, Shoot, Edit, Publish - mattdavis.pro
EX1 x2, C100 --> FCPX & PPro6
Matt Davis is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Apple / Mac Post Production Solutions > Final Cut Suite

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:36 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network