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Old August 28th, 2009, 03:18 PM   #1
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Final Cut 7 and editing HDV advice, please

For about two and a half years I've been working with Final Cut 5.0, editing a 24P HDV project shot on a V1U with a DR60 hard drive capturing, so the files were in M2T format (I didn't even know about the sony FCP plugin for the DR60, until I just did a search, but I believe that's only for FCP 6 and up). My workflow has been:

1. Use the MPEG Streamclip application to convert the M2T files to Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC)
2. Use Cinema Tools to remove the pulldown
3. Edit the 24P AIC on the timeline

I've now upgraded to Final Cut Studio 7.0, and I have another project I'm starting post on, also 24P M2T format. Can anyone suggest the best workflow for this? AIC files are huge, but I believe ProRes are even larger. Should I use the Sony plugin to import the M2T files and edit in HDV on the timeline, or use MPEG Streamclip to convert to a ProRes codec (which has the least deleterious effect on image quality?). ProRes 422 (Proxy)?
Previous posts seem to suggest editing in HDV without the pulldown removed, but I would think this might be strange?

Thanks for reading and your suggestions
Greg
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Old August 28th, 2009, 06:03 PM   #2
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Actually, ProRes files can be significantly smaller than AIC.

AIC at 1080/60i clocks in at 14MB/sec, or 168Mb/s:

Final Cut Pro 5: About HDV and the Apple Intermediate Codec

ProRes 422 clocks in at 147Mb/s, ProRes422 (HQ) at 220, and the new ProRes422 (LT) at 102:

Apple - Final Cut Studio - Final Cut Pro 7 - Expanded ProRes

The downside to editing in native HDV is still, as it has always been, HUGE render times. sure, you'll only use 1/4 of the drive space, but you'll end up waiting 30 seconds for a 2-second transition to render - ugh!

It's far past time for AIC to be put to bed - I'd go ProRes 422 all the way. Also, if you shot native 24p, you should edit native 24p. As you've been doing, remove that pulldown and edit on a native 24p sequence.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 01:03 PM   #3
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Thanks Scott; so it seems like ProRes 422 (HQ) could be the way to run instead of AIC.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 08:49 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Greg Quinn View Post
Thanks Scott; so it seems like ProRes 422 (HQ) could be the way to run instead of AIC.
Differences of opinion on whether to go with hq or not from an 8 bit source.


Alternatively, you could bring your hdv footage into fcp and use media manager to compress the files, then reconnect when editing is done.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 09:21 AM   #5
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AIC is an older codec that gets little development. ProRes is brand new and receives a lot more development from Apple. It's far more efficient and higher quality than AIC. Personally I would never go with AIC when ProRes was available. Especially now with all of it's different data rates. Even the Proxy Prores looks pretty good and perfect for offline work.

Noah
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Old August 31st, 2009, 09:31 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Noah Kadner View Post
Personally I would never go with AIC when ProRes was available.
Can I remove 3:2 pulldown from ProRes with Cinema Tools as I can with AIC?
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Old August 31st, 2009, 10:14 AM   #7
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No difference in how Cinema Tools will allow you to remove pulldown.

Noah Kadner and Gary Adcock know what they're talking about, as much as anyone in this industry.

Look like ProRes (not HQ) is the sweet spot for your footage. Plus, you don't have to bump up to 220Mb/s, which is good news for your Hard Drive space and, apparently your CPU load.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 04:47 AM   #8
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Codec Issues

Hi Guys,

Sorry to jump in. I currently am running with a Canon XHA1S & Canon 7d, editing with Final Cut Studio 7.

I understand the preferred settings for the 7d footage is Apple ProRes however i am having trouble running the hdv footage through smoothly.

Can anyone lend me some advice in regard to running the XHA1S 1080 25p footage with the 7d 720 60p footage.

Much thanks, Nic
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Old November 10th, 2010, 06:48 AM   #9
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Nic, to my knowledge you have to do some conversion to get a good mix of this footage!

I do mix footage from a Canon XLH1 and a Canon 7D myself quite often. The way I do it is to shoot in the same fps for both cameras. I set both the H1 and the 7D to 1080p25. Then in post I convert both of them to ProRes 422, work without any issue!
In some cases for slow motion footage I shoot in 720p50 or p60 with the 7D and then convert using Cinema Tools to 720p25.

So my advice will be to start shooting with the same fps for both cameras. Convert all footage to ProRes 422 before start to edit.
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