XL2 24p and Final Cut Pro Settings -HELP! at DVinfo.net

Laura Smith · March 30th, 2005, 05:04 PM

I have footage shot from a Canon XL2 in 24p 2:3 Mode, Anamorphic Widescreen 16:9. This is our first project in 24p and the more I read, the more confused I get with what settings I need for Final Cut Pro HD. What Sequence Presets and Capture Presets do I need? Also, will I be editing on a 24fps timeline or a 30fps timeline? The footage is 24fps but I will be outputting to DVD to watch on a TV. Also, what is the difference between the 23.98fps and 24fps. How do I know which to use? Thanks for any help you can give!

Joe Abeleda · March 31st, 2005, 01:21 PM

Check out this thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39549&highlight=xl2+169+final+cut+pro+HD

Good luck!

Laura Smith · March 31st, 2005, 03:51 PM

That thread seems to just talk about 24p advanced pulldown. We did not shoot in 24p advanced (2:3:3:2 pulldown). We shot in 24p 2:3. I'm not sure how the settings are different when shooting in the two different 24p modes. Which settings do I use when shooting in 2:3? Thanks.

Will Griffith · March 31st, 2005, 05:31 PM

1. with no project open go to Audio/Video Settings
2. select the "Sequence Presets" tab
3. select the "DV NTSC 48kHz - 23.98"
4. select Duplicate
5. rename to "DV 23.98 Widescreen" (or something like that)
6. select the checkbox "Anamorphic 16:9" then hit OK
4. select Capture Presets tab
5. select "DV NTSC 48 kHz Anamorphic" preset
4. select Duplicate
5. rename to "DV 23.98 Widescreen" (or something like that)
5. change FPS to 23.98 then select OK
5. select the Summary tab
5. select "Create Easy Setup", fill it in, hit ok
5. with no project open verify new easy setup in place
5. create new project.

Laura Smith · April 2nd, 2005, 01:17 AM

Ok, I seem to be more confused than ever. I tried using the 23.98fps setting with the 16:9 anamorphic checked. In FCP, the anamorphic ratio looks great, but when I tried to export and put it on a DVD it still appeared squeezed. I tried iDVD which I heard doesn't handle anamorphic from FCP well; however, I also tried DVD Studio Pro with the 16:9 option checked. All my DVDs came out squished. I did try the fix by moving my anamorphic sequence into a nonanamorphic timeline in FCP. That gave me the black bars on top and bottom on the DVD, but I can't help thinking I'm doing something wrong. I was sure that native 16:9 could be read on a DVD. Am I wrong? As far as the 24fps, I am still having problems. When I export the 24fps timeline (and 24fps captured footage), it is jumpy on the DVD. If I capture the 24fps footage with 29.97 settings and in a 29.97 timeline, it seems to look all right - athough I can't tell if there is some quality loss. Should I be editing and exporting in 29.97 instead of 23.98 because I will be exporting to a DVD and playing the film on a TV? Thanks!

Greg Boston · April 5th, 2005, 09:43 PM

Laura,

I recently shot, edited, and authored using the same camera settings. If you have a 4:3 aspect tv set (most folks still do in the U.S.), you have to tell your DVD player so it will letterbox or pan and scan widescreen (anamorphic flag bit set on dvd) material on your 4:3 display. I had to do this on the client's dvd player because otherwise, 16:9 will just come out squished when you view it on the tv although you've properly done your workflow with anamorphic settings. It should be in the player setup menus under display or something similar. I guess many players are shipping with 16:9 display as the default setup.

Hope this helps cause from reading your posts, it looks as though you did everything else right.

regards,

-gb-

Laura Smith · April 5th, 2005, 10:58 PM

Actually, I figured it out! There was an additional 16:9 setting in DVD Studio Pro that I didn't know about. I guess I had to click on the movie file and go to the inspector to hit 16:9 as well as the DVD project. I burned and the footage came out letterboxed on my DVD player. Finally! The only problem I have about it now is that the quality is not the same as the original footage we shot. It's close but still looks degraded. When I exported from Final Cut Pro, I just exported as a Quicktime file. I also tried exporting through Compressor at high quality MPEG-2. Both came out about the same. I'm not sure if you can change the quality export or not or that everyone's exports are not as crisp and clean as the original. Any thoughts?

Matthew Nayman · April 6th, 2005, 07:12 AM

Whenever (in my experience) you output NTSC footage to a DVD you always lose a bit of quality, especially in the blacks...

MPEG-2 is a COMPRESSION, so some loss will occur unfortuantly. I wish I could show my movies in Mini DV!

Matt

Greg Boston · April 6th, 2005, 06:02 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Laura Smith : Actually, I figured it out! There was an additional 16:9 setting in DVD Studio Pro that I didn't know about. I guess I had to click on the movie file and go to the inspector to hit 16:9 as well as the DVD project. I burned and the footage came out letterboxed on my DVD player. Finally! The only problem I have about it now is that the quality is not the same as the original footage we shot. It's close but still looks degraded. When I exported from Final Cut Pro, I just exported as a Quicktime file. I also tried exporting through Compressor at high quality MPEG-2. Both came out about the same. I'm not sure if you can change the quality export or not or that everyone's exports are not as crisp and clean as the original. Any thoughts? -->>>

If it transcodes the footage in anyway, or resizes in fcp you will get degraded quality. My first pass through, I got the same thing. Don't change the H X V settings. Leave them at 720X480 all the way through. Just make sure capture has anamorphic checked. Sequence needs anamorphic checked also. Output QT 'self contained' and put in DVDSP assets. Right click (command-click) on the video file in assets and there is also an anamorphic setting. Then, as you found out, you have to check the box in the inspector pane. This last step is the one that actually sets the widescreen flag bit on your DVD for the player to adjust its output to match your display. When I did all this, I was very pleased at how it looked on my 65" WS set. No noise, pixelation, or grainy look. You also have the option to skip the QT output from FCP and go straight to compressor with the sequence which might look even better. If you create any graphics in Motion, those will need to be set at 854x486(16:9 ratio). That will make them look correct in DVDSP.

good luck,

-gb-

Wrangler's note: I am relocating this thread to NLE on the Mac cause that's the main discussion here. The XL-2 was only the aquisition camera.

March 30th, 2005, 05:04 PM	#1
Laura Smith New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 5	XL2 24p and Final Cut Pro Settings -HELP! I have footage shot from a Canon XL2 in 24p 2:3 Mode, Anamorphic Widescreen 16:9. This is our first project in 24p and the more I read, the more confused I get with what settings I need for Final Cut Pro HD. What Sequence Presets and Capture Presets do I need? Also, will I be editing on a 24fps timeline or a 30fps timeline? The footage is 24fps but I will be outputting to DVD to watch on a TV. Also, what is the difference between the 23.98fps and 24fps. How do I know which to use? Thanks for any help you can give!

March 31st, 2005, 05:31 PM	#4
Will Griffith Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tennessee Posts: 164	1. with no project open go to Audio/Video Settings 2. select the "Sequence Presets" tab 3. select the "DV NTSC 48kHz - 23.98" 4. select Duplicate 5. rename to "DV 23.98 Widescreen" (or something like that) 6. select the checkbox "Anamorphic 16:9" then hit OK 4. select Capture Presets tab 5. select "DV NTSC 48 kHz Anamorphic" preset 4. select Duplicate 5. rename to "DV 23.98 Widescreen" (or something like that) 5. change FPS to 23.98 then select OK 5. select the Summary tab 5. select "Create Easy Setup", fill it in, hit ok 5. with no project open verify new easy setup in place 5. create new project. __________________ will griffith producer/editor

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March 31st, 2005, 01:21 PM	#2
Joe Abeleda New Boot Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 12	Check out this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39549&highlight=xl2+169+final+cut+pro+HD Good luck!

March 31st, 2005, 03:51 PM	#3
Laura Smith New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 5	That thread seems to just talk about 24p advanced pulldown. We did not shoot in 24p advanced (2:3:3:2 pulldown). We shot in 24p 2:3. I'm not sure how the settings are different when shooting in the two different 24p modes. Which settings do I use when shooting in 2:3? Thanks.

April 2nd, 2005, 01:17 AM	#5
Laura Smith New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 5	Ok, I seem to be more confused than ever. I tried using the 23.98fps setting with the 16:9 anamorphic checked. In FCP, the anamorphic ratio looks great, but when I tried to export and put it on a DVD it still appeared squeezed. I tried iDVD which I heard doesn't handle anamorphic from FCP well; however, I also tried DVD Studio Pro with the 16:9 option checked. All my DVDs came out squished. I did try the fix by moving my anamorphic sequence into a nonanamorphic timeline in FCP. That gave me the black bars on top and bottom on the DVD, but I can't help thinking I'm doing something wrong. I was sure that native 16:9 could be read on a DVD. Am I wrong? As far as the 24fps, I am still having problems. When I export the 24fps timeline (and 24fps captured footage), it is jumpy on the DVD. If I capture the 24fps footage with 29.97 settings and in a 29.97 timeline, it seems to look all right - athough I can't tell if there is some quality loss. Should I be editing and exporting in 29.97 instead of 23.98 because I will be exporting to a DVD and playing the film on a TV? Thanks!

April 5th, 2005, 09:43 PM	#6
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Laura, I recently shot, edited, and authored using the same camera settings. If you have a 4:3 aspect tv set (most folks still do in the U.S.), you have to tell your DVD player so it will letterbox or pan and scan widescreen (anamorphic flag bit set on dvd) material on your 4:3 display. I had to do this on the client's dvd player because otherwise, 16:9 will just come out squished when you view it on the tv although you've properly done your workflow with anamorphic settings. It should be in the player setup menus under display or something similar. I guess many players are shipping with 16:9 display as the default setup. Hope this helps cause from reading your posts, it looks as though you did everything else right. regards, -gb-

April 5th, 2005, 10:58 PM	#7
Laura Smith New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 5	Actually, I figured it out! There was an additional 16:9 setting in DVD Studio Pro that I didn't know about. I guess I had to click on the movie file and go to the inspector to hit 16:9 as well as the DVD project. I burned and the footage came out letterboxed on my DVD player. Finally! The only problem I have about it now is that the quality is not the same as the original footage we shot. It's close but still looks degraded. When I exported from Final Cut Pro, I just exported as a Quicktime file. I also tried exporting through Compressor at high quality MPEG-2. Both came out about the same. I'm not sure if you can change the quality export or not or that everyone's exports are not as crisp and clean as the original. Any thoughts?

April 6th, 2005, 07:12 AM	#8
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Whenever (in my experience) you output NTSC footage to a DVD you always lose a bit of quality, especially in the blacks... MPEG-2 is a COMPRESSION, so some loss will occur unfortuantly. I wish I could show my movies in Mini DV! Matt

April 6th, 2005, 06:02 PM	#9
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	<<<-- Originally posted by Laura Smith : Actually, I figured it out! There was an additional 16:9 setting in DVD Studio Pro that I didn't know about. I guess I had to click on the movie file and go to the inspector to hit 16:9 as well as the DVD project. I burned and the footage came out letterboxed on my DVD player. Finally! The only problem I have about it now is that the quality is not the same as the original footage we shot. It's close but still looks degraded. When I exported from Final Cut Pro, I just exported as a Quicktime file. I also tried exporting through Compressor at high quality MPEG-2. Both came out about the same. I'm not sure if you can change the quality export or not or that everyone's exports are not as crisp and clean as the original. Any thoughts? -->>> If it transcodes the footage in anyway, or resizes in fcp you will get degraded quality. My first pass through, I got the same thing. Don't change the H X V settings. Leave them at 720X480 all the way through. Just make sure capture has anamorphic checked. Sequence needs anamorphic checked also. Output QT 'self contained' and put in DVDSP assets. Right click (command-click) on the video file in assets and there is also an anamorphic setting. Then, as you found out, you have to check the box in the inspector pane. This last step is the one that actually sets the widescreen flag bit on your DVD for the player to adjust its output to match your display. When I did all this, I was very pleased at how it looked on my 65" WS set. No noise, pixelation, or grainy look. You also have the option to skip the QT output from FCP and go straight to compressor with the sequence which might look even better. If you create any graphics in Motion, those will need to be set at 854x486(16:9 ratio). That will make them look correct in DVDSP. good luck, -gb- Wrangler's note: I am relocating this thread to NLE on the Mac cause that's the main discussion here. The XL-2 was only the aquisition camera.